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U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

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Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#41

Post by Consultant32452 »

Here's a crazy experiment to try. Try to find some decent statistics on how many lives are saved by modern healthcare in countries you think have good healthcare systems. Basically try to prove that modern healthcare, when viewed in total, is a net benefit. Keep in mind that medical error is one of the leading causes of death. And things like: you were sick and took an antibiotic. Maybe you recovered faster, but you probably would have survived even without the antibiotic.

I believe it is a benefit as a matter of faith, but I couldn't prove it to a skeptical person.

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#42

Post by bsuvc »

> Black Americans experienced largely similar improvement in AAMR in both Democratic and Republican counties.

Doesn't this prove that it is something other than who your county voted for in the last presidential election causing an increase in AAMR?

> Rural Republican counties experienced the highest AAMR and the least improvement

What if living in a rural area is more of a factor than being a "Repulican county"?

This study seems like it is bending over backward to try to tie the risk of death to who you voted for in the presidential election.

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#43

Post by otter-rock »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #11
robotblake wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of specific note I found this quote very alarming > There was no single cause of death driving this lethal wedge: The death rate due to all 10 of the most common causes of death has widened between Republican and Democratic areas.

Surely the solution is for Democrats to force themselves on Republicans, who should accept this imposition of control for their own good.

The author specifically said that the solution is to find a less partisan approach. Who are you arguing with?

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#44

Post by ceeplusplus »

Spivak wrote: post #28
ceeplusplus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article tries to come to the conclusion that correlation equals causation. The title reads "A growing gap in premature deaths along party lines underscores the collision of politics and public health" which implies politics causes premature deaths. In reality it's more likely that the average Republican voter skews both lower income and rural which is the true causation of deaths.

Unless you're arguing that the typical Republican voter is skewing ruraler and poorer over time such a theory doesn't explain why the gap is growing.

I think that's a valid argument to be made. Stats have shown the Republican party has become more blue collar over time [1] and that white collar workers are trending left over time [2]. This would explain why the gap is growing: blue collar workers make less and sacrifice more of their health on the job than white collar workers. Blue collar workers also generally don't live in cities, because factories and industry aren't located in cities.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/gop-rapidly-...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/11/democrat-...

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#45

Post by mistrial9 »

T0pH4t wrote: post #7

I'm not even sure why you would attempt a study like this. It purely observational driven. There is no way to gauge whether the opposite parties policies would have resulted in more/less deaths. For all we know the decision made at the time (even with deaths) was the best possible outcome.

upvote and amplify this -- there are hundreds of massive factors that are not at all causative via political voting. I have heard obesity rates mentioned in other comments, and that is consistent with trends I have seen.

edit: hah- I said "obesity" and "massive factors" .. B&B score

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#47

Post by lallysingh »

bsuvc wrote: post #42

> Black Americans experienced largely similar improvement in AAMR in both Democratic and Republican counties. Doesn't this prove that it is something other than who your county voted for in the last presidential election causing an increase in AAMR? > Rural Republican counties experienced the highest AAMR and the least improvement What if living in a rural area is more of a factor than being a "Repulican county"? Thi…

What are you quoting? I can't find the phrase "AAMR" in the article at all. Nor "Black Americans."

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#48

Post by bitwize »

fullshark wrote: post #15
qgin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about the victory or loss of either party. It’s saying there are two Americas developing simultaneously and people in each have different health outcomes. Are the parties causative? Or are they just the labels that we have to describe the two groups currently? We don’t know.

The end of the piece makes it pretty explicit what the point is actually: authors believe democratic policies are better and should be pushed to republican regions. They then go on to talk out of both sides of their mouth on this front, that "health care shouldn't be enmeshed with politics" but hoping that politicians will "listen" to them.

That's because of the two political parties, one is by far more prone to ratfucking. The authors are saying "get the ratfucking out of health care".

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#49

Post by wolverine876 »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #9
Valgrim wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demagoguery implies an appeal to emotion rather than reason. The argument presented in this articles stems from reason and is an analysis of real, verifiable data, so I'd say no.

The article tries to come to the conclusion that correlation equals causation. The title reads "A growing gap in premature deaths along party lines underscores the collision of politics and public health" which implies politics causes premature deaths. In reality it's more likely that the average Republican voter skews both lower income and rural which is the true causation of deaths.

> In reality it's more likely that the average Republican voter skews both lower income and rural which is the true causation of deaths.

The author's based their analysis on data; is there data for your claim? There is plenty of poverty in cities.

EDIT: Quoting another commenter who quoted the OP: "[r]egardless of whether we looked at urban or rural areas, people living in areas with Republican political preferences were more likely to die prematurely than those in areas with Democratic political preferences"

Re: U.S. death rates show how politics are affecting public health

#50

Post by tinalumfoil »

lallysingh wrote: post #47
bsuvc wrote: post #42

> Black Americans experienced largely similar improvement in AAMR in both Democratic and Republican counties. Doesn't this prove that it is something other than who your county voted for in the last presidential election causing an increase in AAMR? > Rural Republican counties experienced the highest AAMR and the least improvement What if living in a rural area is more of a factor than being a "Repulican county"? Thi…

What are you quoting? I can't find the phrase "AAMR" in the article at all. Nor "Black Americans."

https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj-2021-069308
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