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Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

scholars-stage.org

41–50 of 88 posts

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#41
Their history of strategic bombing is wrong. They fail to mention that the RAF was developed to primarily bomb civilians in Mesopotamia and elsewhere in the British empire. The development of bombing after WWI was really about imperial maintenance and putting down any internal strife. This can also be said of the Italians in Ethiopia. I think the point is that the technology developed at a time when the need for the Europeans with the technology was to fight imperial wars. Only later did WWII see the methods of bombing that has been used to quell imperial revolt get adapted to war. The Spanish civil war should get a mention here as well. Everyone knows about Guernica, etc.

Sanctions are just modern day siege warfare. Go look at the 80 years war between the Dutch and Spanish for some of the longest and most interesting sieges in history. In almost all examples one can find sieges or sanctions almost never result in a local popularion rising up against their local elites and leadership. The fact that this is not more widely discussed in American sanctions discourse is a testament to American war propaganda effectiveness. Name one country where American sanctions have resulted in a local population regime changing their leadership. I can't think of any. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, N Korea, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, and of course Russia.

Go look at the list and find a single country under US sanctions where the USA has achieved regime change because of sanctions.

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...

Go look at the history of countries the US has sanctioned and try and find one that resulted in regime change. You will not find any.

Instead sanctions typically have the effect of prolonging conflict and solidifying the power structures of the local regime and elites. They're punitive and they affect the poorest of a country. The UN says the greatest humanitarian disaster right now is in in Yemen, and that's directly caused by US and UK sanctions. It won't win the war for the Saudis and UAE, but it's starving hundreds of thousands of Yemenis.

Sanctions against Cuba did not remove Castro. Instead it provided his regime an ability to control food distribution. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Cuban people and their ability to live under US sanctions, but even if I hated Communism in my bones I would recognise that US sanctions on Cuba have been an abject failure.

Black markets and smuggling develop under sanctions and these get controlled by those in power. Sanctions make it much easier for established power structures to survive and thrive. Suddenly people can't get fuel, food and other essentials. They need to come to those in power and beg for them. So those in power can decide who gets these essential items, and even better yet, blame their enemies on the fact that they have to be rationed. Sanctions are both a material and propaganda gift to the regimes the US says they want to dethrone.

So who benefits from sanctions in the USA, why do they keep imposing them? I think the answer to this question is really complex. Partly because there is both real political will in the USA to see regime change in sanctioned countries and people who benefit materially from sanctions knowing that they will not succeed.

If sanctions are so bad at achieving their stated objectives, why does the USG keep imposing them? This is the interesting question.

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#42
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I get old, the more I notice that people’s opinions are not really their own, but are function of the nation’s medias. Can we blame people for their opinion?

Yes, ffs.

Can we always blame people for their opinions?

Can we blame the mentally underdeveloped, like children?

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#43
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last paragraph lost me. Every country has rapers, murderers and (when given the opportunity - eg even recently, and very probably, still, in the Ukraine) looters. Especially in the military. Calling 'worrying about...civilians', 'disgusting', based on the actions of a few soldiers is a little disingenuous and very straw man.

You're messing single cases with 1. Mass and 2. Higher command-approved and 3. Denying afterwards crimes.

I think worrying about the impact in civilians who had no part in a crimes by their fellow countrymen but are being punished by the bluntness of a response is perfectly reasonable. In fact, I find the opposite (an utter lack of concern for it) to be unreasonable.

That’s true whether the blunt response is economic sanctions or widespread bombing.

Those actions might still be the best available response overall, but that conclusion should be reached after considering the effects on innocent civilians, not after ignoring them.

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#44

Their history of strategic bombing is wrong. They fail to mention that the RAF was developed to primarily bomb civilians in Mesopotamia and elsewhere in the British empire. The development of bombing after WWI was really about imperial maintenance and putting down any internal strife. This can also be said of the Italians in Ethiopia. I think the point is that the technology developed at a time when the need for the…

Their stated objective is to decrease Russian ability to project force, which they are doing.

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#45
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are punishing people for rolling poorly on the parental lottery. Some kid starving to death because of sanctions doesn't understand what's happening. Their parents will be too poor and hungry to meaningfully fight back against their leaders. It's only going to hurt the vulnerable people in a country - militaries and oligarchs will not be impacted unless you target them specifically and narrowly . Imagine if China…

[flagged]

>while Russian soldiers are raping, murdering and looting left and right

It's disgusting that you translate blatant low-quality propaganda which clearly aims to amplify hatred. Even Zelensky had to fire Denisova who was behind the most outrageous lies about "raping". The Western media liked to re-translate her sexual fantasies, but have you heard any official refutations of those claims?

P.S.: I wonder why this comment was flagged. Is the Denisova's case became too toxic and ruins the demonization narrative?

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#46
post #29
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one could say it was in the vital long-term national interest of russia NOT to invade ukraine. taiwan / ukraine is just megalomania of a few men

Brzezinski would disagree with you. Not even touching the political aspect (Ukrainian nationalism being clearly anti-Russian long before 2014), for the Russian military having well established NATO military bases in Ukraine and Georgia is many times worse than for US to have Russian bases in Cuba and elsewhere in Latin America (and you should remember how US reacted to the possibility of those). And no, the Russian m…

Do you have more reading from Brzezinski on this topic?

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#47
post #45
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>while Russian soldiers are raping, murdering and looting left and right It's disgusting that you translate blatant low-quality propaganda which clearly aims to amplify hatred. Even Zelensky had to fire Denisova who was behind the most outrageous lies about "raping". The Western media liked to re-translate her sexual fantasies, but have you heard any official refutations of those claims? P.S.: I wonder why this comme…

There are numerous recorded cases of rape (according to various neutral NGOs present on the field), and there was that intercepted call of a Russian soldier getting permission from his wife to rape, as long as he used protection.

Saying the obvious fact Russian army rapes shouldn't amplify hatred, because the Russian army should already be hated and despised for it's brutality. To an extent it's not their direct fault because many of soldiers are just poor young guys acting on primal instincts with nobody to teach them better ( on the contrary, their war crimes are encouraged).

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#48
post #29
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one could say it was in the vital long-term national interest of russia NOT to invade ukraine. taiwan / ukraine is just megalomania of a few men

Brzezinski would disagree with you. Not even touching the political aspect (Ukrainian nationalism being clearly anti-Russian long before 2014), for the Russian military having well established NATO military bases in Ukraine and Georgia is many times worse than for US to have Russian bases in Cuba and elsewhere in Latin America (and you should remember how US reacted to the possibility of those). And no, the Russian m…

Who is it worse for? Putin or the russian people...

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#49
post #47
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>while Russian soldiers are raping, murdering and looting left and right It's disgusting that you translate blatant low-quality propaganda which clearly aims to amplify hatred. Even Zelensky had to fire Denisova who was behind the most outrageous lies about "raping". The Western media liked to re-translate her sexual fantasies, but have you heard any official refutations of those claims? P.S.: I wonder why this comme…

There are numerous recorded cases of rape (according to various neutral NGOs present on the field), and there was that intercepted call of a Russian soldier getting permission from his wife to rape, as long as he used protection. Saying the obvious fact Russian army rapes shouldn't amplify hatred, because the Russian army should already be hated and despised for it's brutality. To an extent it's not their direct faul…

No post body was provided.

Re: Sanctions and Strategic Bombing

#50
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are punishing people for rolling poorly on the parental lottery. Some kid starving to death because of sanctions doesn't understand what's happening. Their parents will be too poor and hungry to meaningfully fight back against their leaders. It's only going to hurt the vulnerable people in a country - militaries and oligarchs will not be impacted unless you target them specifically and narrowly . Imagine if China…

Nope, they are good policy. Speaking as one affected. Those who can move -- move out of the country (usually the most economically active people), weakening the regime ability to make weapons. Those who starve have nothing to lose, so they start fighting the regime. Revolutions never happen in well fed society.

What evidence do you have to support your claim? Many countries have been subjected to sanctions for years, yet their military power hasn't diminished significantly (NK, Iran, ...).

The misery of the poor and disenfranchised, which you dismiss as people not "having anything anyways", has however been much exacerbated.

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