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The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

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Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#41

Post by madcaptenor »

fredley wrote: post #31
bambax wrote: post #28

I am kind of ashamed to bring this anecdote in a comment to such a high brow article, but it should be noted that "Ode to Joy" was the villain's song in the first "Die Hard" movie. It's played when the bad guys finally open the vault. The chief villain, Hans Gruber, is himself, of course, German and has received "a classical education". (The director, McTiernan, had noticed the use of Ode to Joy in A Clockwork Orange…

The use of Ode to Joy in A Clockwork Orange is not incidental. In the original novel Alex is obsessed with classical music and Beethoven in particular. When he is subjected to the Ludovico technique it is Ode to Joy that is playing, which renders him unable to enjoy his passion any more.

I haven’t read A Clockwork Orange, but clearly Ludovico is a reference to Ludwig van Beethoven‘s first name.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#42

Post by madcaptenor »

nosianu wrote: post #24

In this context I would like to point to the free edx Harvard course series "First Nights", which introduces some important pieces of classical music and the context around their first public performance. The series is aimed at laypeople. The series also includes one course for the one being discussed here: https://www.edx.org/course/first-nights-beethovens-9th-symph... > First Nights - Beethoven's 9th Symphony and t…

If you like books instead of videos, there is a book based on this course, First Nights (by Kelly): https://www.amazon.com/First-Nights-Five-Musical-Premiers/dp...

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#43

Post by zasdffaa »

jethkl wrote: post #34

Late Beethoven works are astonishing. The Great Fugue [1,2] is also remarkable -- fiendishly tough on both audiences and players. It is hard to believe it was written during the early 19th century. The fugue also has an interesting story: originally the 4th movement of a quartet, its terrible reception caused the publisher to request a new 4th movement, and the fugue became a standalone piece. The best description I'…

"fiendishly tough on both audiences" is this a way of saying it's not very nice without saying it?

(Thanks for the YT link to it, nice touch)

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#44

Post by jbay808 »

teruakohatu wrote: post #4
coldcode wrote: post #2

Nothing any of us do today will exist in 500 years, but I suspect Beethoven's Ninth will continue to inspire.

Symphony No. 9 was composed between 1822 and 1824, so around 200 years ago. It probably will still be as popular in 300 years time, but that is not a given. It is hard to say what society will look like and value 300 years from now. I cite math papers written in the 19th century, and I suspect many people here will write math or comp sci-related papers cited in 200 years time. Certainly the contributions of contempor…

We're coming up on 500 years of Thomas Tallis, a composer whose works are still popular and frequently performed.

I would guess that if there are still humans around in 300 years, they will still be discussing Beethoven.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#45

Post by jethkl »

zasdffaa wrote: post #43
jethkl wrote: post #34

Late Beethoven works are astonishing. The Great Fugue [1,2] is also remarkable -- fiendishly tough on both audiences and players. It is hard to believe it was written during the early 19th century. The fugue also has an interesting story: originally the 4th movement of a quartet, its terrible reception caused the publisher to request a new 4th movement, and the fugue became a standalone piece. The best description I'…

"fiendishly tough on both audiences" is this a way of saying it's not very nice without saying it? (Thanks for the YT link to it, nice touch)

At the end of the YT video, the audience applause seems tepid, nobody stands, and yet the performers must be exhausted. (I think it's a great performance.) There's no singable theme, nothing really catchy, just 15 minutes of pretty intense focus required by everybody. For me, it's completely gripping - it can't be background music and I cannot do other work if it is playing. I think it is somehow alien, and so it will never be as widely celebrated as his other works.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#46

Post by funstuff007 »

zasdffaa wrote: post #43
jethkl wrote: post #34

Late Beethoven works are astonishing. The Great Fugue [1,2] is also remarkable -- fiendishly tough on both audiences and players. It is hard to believe it was written during the early 19th century. The fugue also has an interesting story: originally the 4th movement of a quartet, its terrible reception caused the publisher to request a new 4th movement, and the fugue became a standalone piece. The best description I'…

"fiendishly tough on both audiences" is this a way of saying it's not very nice without saying it? (Thanks for the YT link to it, nice touch)

Indeed, listening to 2/3rds of it left me in a fugue-like state.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#47

Post by jodrellblank »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #7
teruakohatu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symphony No. 9 was composed between 1822 and 1824, so around 200 years ago. It probably will still be as popular in 300 years time, but that is not a given. It is hard to say what society will look like and value 300 years from now. I cite math papers written in the 19th century, and I suspect many people here will write math or comp sci-related papers cited in 200 years time. Certainly the contributions of contempor…

I think a name like Einstein will stick around though. It's too embedded in the public consciousness to disappear, and his breakthroughs are too big to forget.

I suspect one of the longest lived names will be Julius Caesar; first his military and Roman history, then he is the name of a Shakespeare play which is a fame of its own, then he’s the name of the month July, and proxy related to August from Augustus Caesar. He’s the name of the Caesar Cipher in cryptography, and tangled up in the etymology of the Caesarian Section method of childbirth (which he probably didn’t have), the Caesar Salad (actually Caesar Cardini but often misunderstood (whom was the chef named after tho?)), and the German word Kaiser for Emperor e.g. Kaiser Wilhelm.

It’s a bit like if Martin Luther King became the dominant meaning of the word “King” and that became the reason “King” echoed down the centuries; famous things named after him so that everything King which isn’t named after him is often thought to be, or is a reminder of him.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#48

Post by ianai »

MauranKilom wrote: post #33
teruakohatu wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (collectively) remember Newton, even if the average person doesn't understand gravity beyond "keeps us on the ground" or calculus. We can go back thousands of years and we still remember Pythagoras. Einstein's association with nuclear energy will be what keeps his memory alive.

I challenge the assumption that the average person associates nuclear energy with Einstein (or the other way around).

and I challenge the assumption that even physicists know much about gravity beyond "keeps stuff on the ground." We may have general relativity, but it somehow seems to miss something to say physical models of gravity are that well flushed. It doesn't explain something like 80-90% of the gross movements of large masses seen in the universe by astrophysicists. We know a heck of a lot more about the small scale.

But this is a silly point I'm making, I admit ;)

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#49

Post by ed-209 »

jethkl wrote: post #34

Late Beethoven works are astonishing. The Great Fugue [1,2] is also remarkable -- fiendishly tough on both audiences and players. It is hard to believe it was written during the early 19th century. The fugue also has an interesting story: originally the 4th movement of a quartet, its terrible reception caused the publisher to request a new 4th movement, and the fugue became a standalone piece. The best description I'…

And that is how headbanging was invented

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#50

Post by 331c8c71 »

coldcode wrote: post #2

Nothing any of us do today will exist in 500 years, but I suspect Beethoven's Ninth will continue to inspire.

Beethoven sonatas are here to stay as well. Besides the "Moonlight" I think the "Hammerklavier", the "Waldstein", the "Tempest" and the "Pathetique" are absolute masterpieces (and probably others).

Fur Elise is so overplayed that I cannot take it seriously tbh:(

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