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Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

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Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#41

Post by ddingus »

themitigating wrote: post #11
usrn wrote: post #4

Firefighting is one of those absolutely basic parts of civilization who's importance is obvious to everyone. If people are robbing firefighters then social cohesion is completely dead.

Many of these thefts are related to economic issues but they come and go. Here's the NY Times in 2008 talking about an epidemic of catalytic coverter thefts https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/us/29converters.html

That appears to be ramping up again. One of the people on a project I'm working with them on just had theirs stolen.

And it could total their car!

People driving used Hondas may find out insurance won't cover, or will want to just total used cars due to the converter being worth more than the paper value of the car, despite a used market valuing the car much higher!

Cost $1,200 to $2,400 to replace and due to the last round of this theft happening, the legal requirements are now stiff. One can't just go get one of these and install anymore. Has to be done in a shop, and there is traceability on everything. Expensive.

Yet the thieves can still somehow trade the metals.

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#42

Post by cowtools »

Syonyk wrote: post #37
r00fus wrote: post #31

"The rip-offs of common powertrain control module 4 units relate to the ongoing shortage of microchips" So how long does the microchip shortage continue?

> So how long does the microchip shortage continue? Warning: Paid Pessimist point of view (I've done computer security for far, far too long). Indefinitely. It doesn't recover. Because (modern, leading process) microchips are the sort of globe spanning supply chain problem that works great, right up until it doesn't. Coolant for some laser is made in this country that's at war. Some critical surface processing chemic…

I mean it's not like most consumer hardware has to be on the latest nodes. The current hardware is more than enough for any consumer applications I can think of.

Maybe just need to reuse more hardware. Standardize and commodify replacement parts for mobile devices like framework/fairphone. Reduce the amount of IoT crap in toasters/etc. Use multiseat instead of thin clients. Upcycle old computers.

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#43

Post by hotpotamus »

ddingus wrote: post #41
themitigating wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of these thefts are related to economic issues but they come and go. Here's the NY Times in 2008 talking about an epidemic of catalytic coverter thefts https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/us/29converters.html

That appears to be ramping up again. One of the people on a project I'm working with them on just had theirs stolen. And it could total their car! People driving used Hondas may find out insurance won't cover, or will want to just total used cars due to the converter being worth more than the paper value of the car, despite a used market valuing the car much higher! Cost $1,200 to $2,400 to replace and due to the las…

I don't understand the legal requirement thing. In my state, I'm pretty sure I could put a straight pipe down there and I'd never have an issue. In fact, I'd probably look into it if it happened to me. That said, I know my state is pretty lax about that sort of thing. Curious how it's actually enforced in others.

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#44

Post by sokoloff »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #19
tyingq wrote: post #13

I have to wonder if this is one of those somewhat "implanted" stories to get support for moving towards John Deere style DRM on some of their parts. That is, not that it's made up, but that perhaps the scale is being exaggerated a bit. Edit: Yes, I'm aware there's some DRM. So far, though, not as locked down as the example of John Deere, cryptographic control that requires phone-home, etc.

The article implies the control units are coded to the vehicle's VIN at least to some degree and mentions Freightliner asks people to look out for logged errors indicating someone attempted to use a control unit from a different VIN. There's also mention of a separate password function. However, if there's a market for these units, someone's likely developed a tool to "re code" the control units. But: "Moving toward"…

The average age of vehicles is trending up because cars are more reliable and just last longer. It used to be an event to roll over a 5-digit odometer. Now, 250K miles is just getting broken in.

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#45

Post by speed_spread »

nr2x wrote: post #21

So we’ve gotten to the Gibson “high tech low life” stage officially. “Case picked up the powertrain control module from the table and nodded at the fence across the table…”

I'm currently reading "Idoru" for the first time and it feels contemporary. Much of Gibson's work is no longer science-fiction.

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#46

Post by sokoloff »

ddingus wrote: post #41
themitigating wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of these thefts are related to economic issues but they come and go. Here's the NY Times in 2008 talking about an epidemic of catalytic coverter thefts https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/us/29converters.html

That appears to be ramping up again. One of the people on a project I'm working with them on just had theirs stolen. And it could total their car! People driving used Hondas may find out insurance won't cover, or will want to just total used cars due to the converter being worth more than the paper value of the car, despite a used market valuing the car much higher! Cost $1,200 to $2,400 to replace and due to the las…

The law changed to prohibit the sale of used converters for installation or the installation of used on a different car, but I can still buy a new one and install it in my driveway if I want. (You might have a law in your state to prevent that, I guess.)

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#47

Post by Syonyk »

cowtools wrote: post #42
Syonyk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how long does the microchip shortage continue? Warning: Paid Pessimist point of view (I've done computer security for far, far too long). Indefinitely. It doesn't recover. Because (modern, leading process) microchips are the sort of globe spanning supply chain problem that works great, right up until it doesn't. Coolant for some laser is made in this country that's at war. Some critical surface processing chemic…

I mean it's not like most consumer hardware has to be on the latest nodes. The current hardware is more than enough for any consumer applications I can think of. Maybe just need to reuse more hardware. Standardize and commodify replacement parts for mobile devices like framework/fairphone. Reduce the amount of IoT crap in toasters/etc. Use multiseat instead of thin clients. Upcycle old computers.

> I mean it's not like most consumer hardware has to be on the latest nodes. The current hardware is more than enough for any consumer applications I can think of.

Electron says, "Hold my beer!"

I would love to see lower software requirements, more long lived systems, etc.

Meanwhile, Microsoft is obsoleting... basically the last decade+ of hardware for Windows 11. It's an uphill fight.

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#48

Post by swearwolf »

themitigating wrote: post #11
usrn wrote: post #4

Firefighting is one of those absolutely basic parts of civilization who's importance is obvious to everyone. If people are robbing firefighters then social cohesion is completely dead.

Many of these thefts are related to economic issues but they come and go. Here's the NY Times in 2008 talking about an epidemic of catalytic coverter thefts https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/us/29converters.html

That’s still very much a booming business, unfortunately.

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#49

Post by sokoloff »

hotpotamus wrote: post #43
ddingus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That appears to be ramping up again. One of the people on a project I'm working with them on just had theirs stolen. And it could total their car! People driving used Hondas may find out insurance won't cover, or will want to just total used cars due to the converter being worth more than the paper value of the car, despite a used market valuing the car much higher! Cost $1,200 to $2,400 to replace and due to the las…

I don't understand the legal requirement thing. In my state, I'm pretty sure I could put a straight pipe down there and I'd never have an issue. In fact, I'd probably look into it if it happened to me. That said, I know my state is pretty lax about that sort of thing. Curious how it's actually enforced in others.

You might need to install a downstream O2 sensor simulator to prevent an OBD2 failure to verify function of the (now missing) converter, but those are readily available for off-road use as I’m sure would be your application. ;)

Re: Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable

#50

Post by willcipriano »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #22
EntropicBrew wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article is on Frieghtliners not firefighting trucks. But robbery is still absolutely an issue.

Best I can think of is that parent commenter was referring to the fact that many fire and EMS vehicles use a Freightliner chassis/engine? Our fire department needs a new ambulance. There is a two year waiting list for one. The ineptitude of the automotive industry in dragging its heels relying on outdated semiconductor manufacturing is just mind-boggling, but so is the lack of action by the administration to order pr…

Can they do that? I mean they could buy things on the open market sure, but force sellers to sell (at presumably a lower price since if ambulance manufacturers aren't winning bids now they probably aren't paying the most) to particular consumers and not others.

People might start asking who John Galt is.

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