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The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

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Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#41

Post by dharmab »

thawaya3113 wrote: post #30
daenz wrote: post #12

Maybe I'm getting old, but I don't want to do all development-related tasks in my web browser. As a software engineer, I want local control, where an internet connection is optional. I want to be able to experiment with the software in various local setups. I just don't get why Gitlab thinks this is a good idea worth a huge amount of engineering effort. Are people really clamoring for this feature?

I don’t even know how I would develop with something like this. My entire workflow is based around tens of little scripts I’ve written. Many scripts tend to be unique to a single project. For example, I’m currently working in a project that’s based on an open source front end framework that has been discontinued for over 5 years. Creating a new component requires the creation of 3 different files with a ton of boiler…

Google's internal web IDE has a FUSE interface for local editors.

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#42

Post by happymellon »

snitko wrote: post #21
simonw wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are people really clamoring for this feature? Yes. Because local development environments (at least for the languages I work with, Python and JavaScript) break ALL THE TIME. With 20+ years of experience I can just about keep my own laptop ticking over - but it takes work, and every time I mentor a new learner this is the number one sticking point. The browser-based cloud IDE experience, where it doesn't matter what…

Perhaps the problem isn't your particular environment, but these languages infrastructure.

It sounds like PEBKAC.

I literally have not had Python just break on me, and after decades of software development at various places using Python/Java/Javascript I would say it is rare these days to see it happen to other people in the team either.

It usually happens when someone decides to experiment with a different way of handing application versioning that they saw on HN, but they aren't actually experienced enough to test it in a sandboxed environment. Essentially breaking their computer in a new way that no one else on the team can help, and that Google won't give you any help with.

I would say that the person you are replying to is probably inexperienced and doesn't want to learn their tools.

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#43

Post by impulser_ »

simonw wrote: post #13
daenz wrote: post #12

Maybe I'm getting old, but I don't want to do all development-related tasks in my web browser. As a software engineer, I want local control, where an internet connection is optional. I want to be able to experiment with the software in various local setups. I just don't get why Gitlab thinks this is a good idea worth a huge amount of engineering effort. Are people really clamoring for this feature?

> Are people really clamoring for this feature? Yes. Because local development environments (at least for the languages I work with, Python and JavaScript) break ALL THE TIME. With 20+ years of experience I can just about keep my own laptop ticking over - but it takes work, and every time I mentor a new learner this is the number one sticking point. The browser-based cloud IDE experience, where it doesn't matter what…

I use digitalocean droplets and access them using VS Code.

I have saved droplets for Python JS, and Golang that have just want I need for development in that language. I even have ones based on the environment we used at work.

Then one I want to start a new project I used the saved droplets and boom everytime I have the exact same environment.

Accessing through SSH is just as easy as accessing through URL with VS Code.

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#44

Post by rmetzler »

dimgl wrote: post #5

While this is cool, for Node.js there's something far better: https://stackblitz.com/ . This is one of the more impressive IDE in browser experiences I've had. Comes complete with a terminal and a shim around `npm` that allows you to install JavaScript dependencies directly to the browser. Some truly cool stuff.

There is also https://www.gitpod.io/

I like the current WebIDE. It has two features which are important to me:

- Lauch it with the . hotkey, from the file or merge request you currently browse

- multi cursor with CMD+D on a Mac

I don’t think I need VSCode, but we’ll see.

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#45

Post by echelon »

daenz wrote: post #15
simonw wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are people really clamoring for this feature? Yes. Because local development environments (at least for the languages I work with, Python and JavaScript) break ALL THE TIME. With 20+ years of experience I can just about keep my own laptop ticking over - but it takes work, and every time I mentor a new learner this is the number one sticking point. The browser-based cloud IDE experience, where it doesn't matter what…

The ailments you describe can be resolved by having a small dedicated Developer Experience team. Their mission is to ensure that developers can ramp up quickly with deterministic environments and keep a high velocity with developer tooling. If a big company doesn't have one, they're messing up. I see the benefits of having something that "always works" though the browser, but for me, the lack of control does not outw…

> The ailments you describe can be resolved by having a small dedicated Developer Experience team.

This is a cost center and will be underfunded in most companies and orgs. Companies want to focus on their core competency.

Also, devenv is non-standard across companies. If a company wants a truly interchangeable workforce, they want standard tools that look the same everywhere.

> but for me, the lack of control does not outweigh this convenience

The CTO or CEO will be making this call instead of ICs.

The future is thin clients. It's not just going to be our industry, either. Every creative industry is going to undergo this change.

Workspaces can instantly boot up on any machine. You can share them with your coworkers: "Hey, look at my work and check out XYZ". All the code, assets, and changes are in one place. Press a button and it builds and executes. Frontend, backend, marketing, film editing, you name it.

Zero setup, zero onboarding. When HR terminates you, all access instantly goes away. It's a dream for companies. The first companies to get there will be looking at 10 billion+ TAMs. Plus their other product offerings will interface cleanly for even more sales.

[I'm working on one of these for the creative industry; please reach out if you're interested.]

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#46

Post by pedro2 »

spc476 wrote: post #34
sdf4j wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can. Web IDEs are usually some sort of containerized linux environment with a text editor and a terminal. All accessible in the browser. What kind of lack of control are you thinking of?

30 years of experience of using UNIX as my IDE, with my editor and debugger of choice. All I see is the industry heading back to the 60s, where the high priests took care of the computer, and users were an after thought that paid for CPU and storage. We had the PC revolution for a reason.

These things tend to follow circular patterns. In 40 years, if we don't blow ourselves up, we are back on personal computers.

If until then I'm able to compile stuff on my computer, I'll be happy (source available able to compile).

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#47

Post by crabmusket »

It's interesting to me that GitLab is adopting a Microsoft product (VS Code) and Microsoft owns a significant competitor in GitHub. Nothing intelligent to say about that other than to wish I'd been a fly on the wall for the discussions about that.

> Next, we asked ourselves the question: Do we want to continue to invest in implementing custom features for the Web IDE that ultimately deliver the same value as those already available in VS Code? Or do we embrace VS Code inside GitLab, and invest in extending the experience to more tightly integrate with GitLab and the DevOps workflow?

I feel like if asking myself those questions I'd have come to the same answer, but it's certainly an interesting position. It's not necessarily that I think Microsoft will leverage this open-source project against GitLab. Maybe it just says something about Microsoft's increasingly-dominant position in developer tooling.

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#48

Post by rektide »

There's a long long route to cloudification, but works like Okteto[1] seem like a nice early pass at doing what Docker-Compose was capable of for fast local development, but modern. Pursuing remote-development makes a lot of sense. There's already solid VSCode integration[2].

If you just need a terminal like thing to local-dev in, toolbx[3] is probably the first choice. These are probably where we run our LSP/Language Server Protocol helpers too. Eventually I expect we won't really notice or care that the "computer" ("local") is virtual, just some container.

[1] https://github.com/okteto/okteto

[2] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=okteto.r...

[3] https://containertoolbx.org/

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#49

Post by Aeolun »

daenz wrote: post #12

Maybe I'm getting old, but I don't want to do all development-related tasks in my web browser. As a software engineer, I want local control, where an internet connection is optional. I want to be able to experiment with the software in various local setups. I just don't get why Gitlab thinks this is a good idea worth a huge amount of engineering effort. Are people really clamoring for this feature?

Not so much in this sense, but it was absolutely very handy to be able to do remote dev when my company wouldn’t give me a new (higher spec) laptop, but did allow me to create anything I wanted in AWS.

The only huge negative was that IntelliJ doesn’t have such a great remote story, so I had to switch to VS Code.

Re: The Future of the Gitlab Web IDE

#50

Post by whazor »

daenz wrote: post #12

Maybe I'm getting old, but I don't want to do all development-related tasks in my web browser. As a software engineer, I want local control, where an internet connection is optional. I want to be able to experiment with the software in various local setups. I just don't get why Gitlab thinks this is a good idea worth a huge amount of engineering effort. Are people really clamoring for this feature?

That is because we have expensive MacBooks and elaborated development setups. Having a web-based IDE is great for newcomers and will work on cheap Chromebooks or iPads. Especially as Gitlab the entire infrastructure for both development and deployment.
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