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Why America has so few carpenters

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Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#41

Post by pessimizer »

anamax wrote: post #38
prawn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s talking about hiring discrimination, so that information seems relevant to me. I’d bet that a number of groups would face hiring discrimination in the trades in the US, here in Australia, etc.

A majority of construction workers in San Jose, CA are Hispanic, as are the construction companies. Maybe they discriminate against Blacks. Maybe they also discriminate against folks whose ancestors came from a diferent country. (Do Mexicans tend to like Columbians?) That said, if there's discrimination in construction in San Jose, it isn't by whites.

> That said, if there's discrimination in construction in San Jose, it isn't by whites.

Is this an "as a white man"?

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#42

Post by closeparen »

rdtwo wrote: post #34
paulpauper wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are not upping pay, because it's not profitable. to pay ppl enough $ to entice them to do carpentry is not profitable, hence so few of them. I remember climbing a 4,000 ft mountain in a day in the hot sun..you could not pay me enough $ to ever want to do that again, and even if you could, it would never be profitable. That's why things are airlifted.

Yeah but carpentry has to be done and is getting done. It’s not so expensive you stop the job and wait for a lower price. My guess is you just use other unskilled labor and go for good enough. Maybe a true skilled carpenter isn’t worth the premium or the value isn’t clear to the buyer

Housing starts are very cyclical, they absolutely can and do stop building things when it stops being economically favorable to do so. This is one of the reasons we have so few carpenters. It’s a boom and bust industry.

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#43

Post by missedthecue »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

The last 50 years of American prosperity was built primarily on the exploitation of labor as unions declined and Capital starting consuming an outsized amount of Labor’s productivity (with a fair amount of help from globalization efforts). Until the scales tip (and there are signs we’re headed there) and labor has more power with stronger unions, people should not expect workers to take garbage jobs (even in trades w…

What would carpentry work have to pay before the demand is satisfied? It is my view that many people don't want to do trades at any reasonable rate. I would imagine most people my age would rather make $60k a year answering emails and doing zoom meetings than $120k going to a jobsite early every morning in any weather all year long.

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#44

Post by registeredcorn »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #27
registeredcorn wrote: post #11

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm sorry race is "political ideology" to you. I am White, did some construction (in Alaska) years ago and I can assure you a Black faces an uphill battle in that scenario. Nothing political about it.

No post body was provided.

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#45

Post by billfruit »

wardedVibe wrote: post #14
rdtwo wrote: post #3

Like every other profession with a supposed shortage the pay and work conditions suck. And guess what shortage… It’s like there is a shortage of people willing to pick fruit at 10$ an hour and live in terrible conditions while exposed to harsh chemicals. No shit you need to pay people a whole lot more money

Managers complaining about "not enough x" mean "I'm not willing to pay the market rate for x". Like, its a free market, up your price... or do you think basic economics don't apply to labor too? I'm surprised this article doesn't examine why companies aren't upping their pay.

Or US government can start to issue large number of temporary "fruit picker" visas.

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#46

Post by laingc »

billfruit wrote: post #45
wardedVibe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managers complaining about "not enough x" mean "I'm not willing to pay the market rate for x". Like, its a free market, up your price... or do you think basic economics don't apply to labor too? I'm surprised this article doesn't examine why companies aren't upping their pay.

Or US government can start to issue large number of temporary "fruit picker" visas.

New Zealand does exactly this, and I’m of two minds on it. On the one hand, it seems easy to say that if you don’t have enough workers, you’ve got to raise your price - it’s a free market, right? Except it’s not. NZ has a very generous welfare system (compared to its very small GDP) and this means that being un- or under-employed is a viable option.

On the other hand, the jobs also bring in a lot of money for the islanders who perform them, and the wages are relatively high by international standards due to NZ’s high minimum wage.

We already have a cost of living crisis, and raising the price of fruit and vegetables by removing these visas for seasonal workers seems like it would hurt everyone without helping anyone in particular.

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#47

Post by coldtea »

paulpauper wrote: post #26
wardedVibe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managers complaining about "not enough x" mean "I'm not willing to pay the market rate for x". Like, its a free market, up your price... or do you think basic economics don't apply to labor too? I'm surprised this article doesn't examine why companies aren't upping their pay.

they are not upping pay, because it's not profitable. to pay ppl enough $ to entice them to do carpentry is not profitable, hence so few of them. I remember climbing a 4,000 ft mountain in a day in the hot sun..you could not pay me enough $ to ever want to do that again, and even if you could, it would never be profitable. That's why things are airlifted.

>they are not upping pay, because it's not profitable.

They could raise their prices too. When they say "it's not profitable" they mean "we would like to have workers at low pay, but still enjoy selling at low prices".

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#48

Post by mason55 »

missedthecue wrote: post #43
toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

The last 50 years of American prosperity was built primarily on the exploitation of labor as unions declined and Capital starting consuming an outsized amount of Labor’s productivity (with a fair amount of help from globalization efforts). Until the scales tip (and there are signs we’re headed there) and labor has more power with stronger unions, people should not expect workers to take garbage jobs (even in trades w…

What would carpentry work have to pay before the demand is satisfied? It is my view that many people don't want to do trades at any reasonable rate. I would imagine most people my age would rather make $60k a year answering emails and doing zoom meetings than $120k going to a jobsite early every morning in any weather all year long.

So then offer improved job conditions. Shorter hours, better safety, extra pay for shitty weather days, etc.

The problem is that it takes awhile to train for the job so the labor market won’t be able to react very quickly. By the time we’re adjusting the job offering it’ll be too late.

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#49

Post by [deleted] »

missedthecue wrote: post #43
toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

The last 50 years of American prosperity was built primarily on the exploitation of labor as unions declined and Capital starting consuming an outsized amount of Labor’s productivity (with a fair amount of help from globalization efforts). Until the scales tip (and there are signs we’re headed there) and labor has more power with stronger unions, people should not expect workers to take garbage jobs (even in trades w…

What would carpentry work have to pay before the demand is satisfied? It is my view that many people don't want to do trades at any reasonable rate. I would imagine most people my age would rather make $60k a year answering emails and doing zoom meetings than $120k going to a jobsite early every morning in any weather all year long.

[deleted]

Re: Why America has so few carpenters

#50

Post by kyrra »

hemloc_io wrote: post #6

Related video by a YouTuber who worked as a carpenter before making carpentry related vids. https://youtu.be/xP0egqOivKc

Btw, the article quotes this man (Ethan James, from the "Honest Carpenter" YouTube channel). I was going to link the same video, because I watched that last year as well.
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