Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

web.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 458 posts

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#41

Post by AdrianB1 »

phkahler wrote: post #36
spicybright wrote: post #3

Eh. Everyone hates on jQuery, but for most informational sites that's really all you need for basic interaction. Speed really isn't bad, and it's so straightforward that it's hard to mis-use at this point. I seem to have way more issues with newer frameworks/SPA if I'm not using chrome with no extensions. Makes me nervous dealing with important stuff like banking or government sites.

>> Eh. Everyone hates on jQuery, but for most informational sites that's really all you need for basic interaction. The point seems to be that you don't even need that any more, so just get rid of it. Not sure why people latch onto cruft so much and defend its continued use. On the performance side they cite 10 percent improvement, which doesn't sound like much to a lot of people. But remember that performance gains/…

For AJAX, jQuery is still simpler than vanilla JS.

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#42

Post by mitchdoogle »

spicybright wrote: post #10
jaywalk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For basic interaction, you don't need anything but vanilla JS. Browsers have come a long way since the days where jQuery was almost necessary to deal with all of the minor differences/bugs in various browsers.

I'll admit I'm a bit out of practice with the state of vanilla JS, but it seems like you'll be re-inventing the wheel for simple stuff. Like a collapsible section that's lightly animated. I worry too about people not considering accessibility. A lot of my bugs day to day is not being able to tab into things like hover menus or being able to activate buttons because someone forgot to consider correct event callbacks.…

If you've been using jQuery for years, know it, and can write a good amount of code without looking at a reference, then by all means, keep using it. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#43

Post by Rumudiez »

rtpg wrote: post #40
dgb23 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add: jQuery is a pretty huge library for what it does. Talking both bundle size and execution speed. Not that the latter is noticeable for most cases, but it's still a cost. The question is: What for? The primary use case for it has been cross browser compatibility plus a bit of sugar. The former is _gone_ and the latter is easily replaced with a few lines of JS. Then there is an ecosystem of libraries and compone…

30kb minified and gzipped! Less than most hero images. It's a nice API for simple stuff. I think if you strip out the AJAX support it can get extremely tiny.

30kb gzipped is still 10x larger than Preact for reference

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#45

Post by barbecue_sauce »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #41
phkahler wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Eh. Everyone hates on jQuery, but for most informational sites that's really all you need for basic interaction. The point seems to be that you don't even need that any more, so just get rid of it. Not sure why people latch onto cruft so much and defend its continued use. On the performance side they cite 10 percent improvement, which doesn't sound like much to a lot of people. But remember that performance gains/…

For AJAX, jQuery is still simpler than vanilla JS.

Even fetch?

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#46

Post by seydor »

jaywalk wrote: post #6
spicybright wrote: post #3

Eh. Everyone hates on jQuery, but for most informational sites that's really all you need for basic interaction. Speed really isn't bad, and it's so straightforward that it's hard to mis-use at this point. I seem to have way more issues with newer frameworks/SPA if I'm not using chrome with no extensions. Makes me nervous dealing with important stuff like banking or government sites.

For basic interaction, you don't need anything but vanilla JS. Browsers have come a long way since the days where jQuery was almost necessary to deal with all of the minor differences/bugs in various browsers.

i see a lot of

   const $ = document.querySelector.bind(document);

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#47

Post by nhinck »

chipsa wrote: post #24
spicybright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit I'm a bit out of practice with the state of vanilla JS, but it seems like you'll be re-inventing the wheel for simple stuff. Like a collapsible section that's lightly animated. I worry too about people not considering accessibility. A lot of my bugs day to day is not being able to tab into things like hover menus or being able to activate buttons because someone forgot to consider correct event callbacks.…

Collapsible section? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/de... There's some CSS transition stuff you can add to that to make it lightly animated: https://css-tricks.com/how-to-animate-the-details-element/ Yeah, jQuery might make some things easier, but when possible, using native HTML elements makes things even easier,

Hmm, I would agree that you can do 95%+ of stuff jQuery used to be used for in vanilla js or html/css in a nicer way but animated collapsible divs still require a stupid amount of js to achieve.

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#49

Post by have_faith »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #23
spicybright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit I'm a bit out of practice with the state of vanilla JS, but it seems like you'll be re-inventing the wheel for simple stuff. Like a collapsible section that's lightly animated. I worry too about people not considering accessibility. A lot of my bugs day to day is not being able to tab into things like hover menus or being able to activate buttons because someone forgot to consider correct event callbacks.…

In 2020, a collapsible section is a matter of adding / removing a classname and a CSS animation; there's a few ways to do so, using jQuery is one, but you don't need thousands of lines of a JS library (network bandwidth + JS interpretation) to achieve that.

Can CSS transitions and animations handle animating to auto height/widths yet?

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#50

Post by SemanticStrengh »

The bashing of jQuery comes from junior devs. Of course a VDOM is clearer, more productive (and less performant) however most webapps with a minimum of logic have many legitimate uses of native dom/jquery in addition to the VDOM. And the interaction is perfectly safe as long as you do native DOM in the right lifecycle method (mounted). jQuery is a pleasure to use and give us a lot of power/expressivity. More generally this vague of juniors devs (e.g. CSS-in-JS lobby) are becoming less and less familiar with the concept of CSS/DOM selectors, despite their awesomeness and uniformity both for DOM operations, styling operations and integration tests operations (cypress) BTW a little known fact is that jQuery is not just sugar and cross-browser consistentcy, in fact it push the boundaries of what is possible vs native CSS, see e.g. the reverse direction paradigm shift of https://api.jquery.com/has-selector/ Although its true that augmenting jQuery with a batcher for performance doesn't seems currently possible? https://github.com/wilsonpage/fastdom
Post reply on HN