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Inkscape 1.2 released

inkscape.org

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Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#41

Post by Gigachad »

efortis wrote: post #35
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That’s to say that real-time collaboration is a luxury feature." So were toilets once upon a time. I am not a fan of webapps, but this line of argument doesn't hold water

I rather have a toilet than saving two clicks. —- real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps.

>real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps.

Sure, but once you make the effort required to build a real time app, there are vanishingly few reasons why not to have it as a web app. Some of them provide a desktop app as well but they all provide a web app.

As a designer, you can just send a link to your design to anyone, end users, clients, developers, managers. And they just click it and it shows up and works. No need for installing software, setting up accounts, etc. A lot of these web apps are actually C++ and then compiled to web assembly so they are quite fast.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#42

Post by Gigachad »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #39
Gigachad wrote: post #10

Great to see the project moving along, but it's been a persistent feeling of mine that FOSS is starting to get left behind in the dust. The design space has been very rapidly moving towards online, live collaboration tools like Figma, Sketch, Adobe XD, etc and FOSS just has no answer for this market. Even a lot of the big name proprietary tools are finding themselves becoming rapidly obsolete in a world where people…

Sandstorm.io tries to make collaborative web apps work easily with sharing for non-technical users, though we haven't solved getting people a server easily, or more crucially, convincing people to buy a server to do things they can do for free with ads. Unfortunately, the problem is companies powered by ad revenue have a lot more money to throw at usability than FOSS folks do.

All of these apps and products I mentioned do not have ads, they are paid for directly. Users/businesses do want to pay for software, but when they do pay, they want it to just work seamlessly. No one wants to set up and maintain a server.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#44

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Gigachad wrote: post #42
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sandstorm.io tries to make collaborative web apps work easily with sharing for non-technical users, though we haven't solved getting people a server easily, or more crucially, convincing people to buy a server to do things they can do for free with ads. Unfortunately, the problem is companies powered by ad revenue have a lot more money to throw at usability than FOSS folks do.

All of these apps and products I mentioned do not have ads, they are paid for directly. Users/businesses do want to pay for software, but when they do pay, they want it to just work seamlessly. No one wants to set up and maintain a server.

I mean, ultimately the answer there is... pay someone to run your open source server for you. But since the OSI hates SSPL and the like, the actual open source developers are disadvantaged in running such a service compared to someone who just downloads it and hosts it.

A huge issue is that the gatekeepers of "open source" don't believe making it financially viable is something they need to address. So it's gonna end up being the best we can do in our spare time for the love of progress.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#45

Post by nerdponx »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #24
Gigachad wrote: post #10

Great to see the project moving along, but it's been a persistent feeling of mine that FOSS is starting to get left behind in the dust. The design space has been very rapidly moving towards online, live collaboration tools like Figma, Sketch, Adobe XD, etc and FOSS just has no answer for this market. Even a lot of the big name proprietary tools are finding themselves becoming rapidly obsolete in a world where people…

Hm, I don't think online tools are that far ahead. If I look at the horrible experience, which is Google docs or MS Office 365, especially their word processing parts, they lack behind soooo much compared to a tool like Libreoffice. You cannot even properly use styles and, if I got a few $currency for every silly bug I encountered in those online half-assed tools, I would probably work half time only. If that experie…

Meanwhile LibreOffice is way better than the original MS Word in my opinion.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#46

Post by rtpg »

Inkscape is sometimes my goto for this kind of work, but I've _always_ had really weird performance issues with it with even really basic stuff across many different machines/OSes over the years. Hopeful those performance improvements will affect whatever I've been doing.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#47

Post by nerdponx »

foxes wrote: post #36
zelphirkalt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, I don't think online tools are that far ahead. If I look at the horrible experience, which is Google docs or MS Office 365, especially their word processing parts, they lack behind soooo much compared to a tool like Libreoffice. You cannot even properly use styles and, if I got a few $currency for every silly bug I encountered in those online half-assed tools, I would probably work half time only. If that experie…

In contrast to your anecdote, I have never had issues with Google docs. It has always just worked, reasonably clean interface. I'm not sure what elaborate styling you need, but it seems serviceable for when you need a basic document which I imagine is most peoples use case. Also the collaboration is actually very useful. The same reason I use overleaf as an interface for a lot of my LaTeX projects. I can quickly shar…

G Docs is fine but very basic. Great for sharing and collaboration, not great for exercising precise control over the document.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#48

Post by BeetleB »

efortis wrote: post #19
Gigachad wrote: post #10

Great to see the project moving along, but it's been a persistent feeling of mine that FOSS is starting to get left behind in the dust. The design space has been very rapidly moving towards online, live collaboration tools like Figma, Sketch, Adobe XD, etc and FOSS just has no answer for this market. Even a lot of the big name proprietary tools are finding themselves becoming rapidly obsolete in a world where people…

Good employees find ways to collaborate no matter what. That’s to say that real-time collaboration is a luxury feature. Also, many projects have only one designer. Not to mention, it’s rare to find designers that work in tandem. Also, from a dev perspective having designs updates without some process is undesirable.

> Good employees find ways to collaborate no matter what.

The majority are not good employees.

Good employees can collaborate well with LaTeX as well. Yet over 99% of workplaces will not use LaTeX.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#49

Post by [deleted] »

Gigachad wrote: post #41
efortis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather have a toilet than saving two clicks. —- real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps.

>real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps. Sure, but once you make the effort required to build a real time app, there are vanishingly few reasons why not to have it as a web app. Some of them provide a desktop app as well but they all provide a web app. As a designer, you can just send a link to your design to anyone, end users, clients, developers, managers. And they just click it and it shows up and works. No…

[deleted]

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#50

Post by CharlesW »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #24
Gigachad wrote: post #10

Great to see the project moving along, but it's been a persistent feeling of mine that FOSS is starting to get left behind in the dust. The design space has been very rapidly moving towards online, live collaboration tools like Figma, Sketch, Adobe XD, etc and FOSS just has no answer for this market. Even a lot of the big name proprietary tools are finding themselves becoming rapidly obsolete in a world where people…

Hm, I don't think online tools are that far ahead. If I look at the horrible experience, which is Google docs or MS Office 365, especially their word processing parts, they lack behind soooo much compared to a tool like Libreoffice. You cannot even properly use styles and, if I got a few $currency for every silly bug I encountered in those online half-assed tools, I would probably work half time only. If that experie…

> If I look at the horrible experience, which is Google docs or MS Office 365, especially their word processing parts, they lack behind soooo much compared to a tool like Libreoffice. You cannot even properly use styles…

As a reasonably serious user of Office 365 and someone who's desperately wanted to like LibreOffice, I'm not sure what you could mean by "properly use styles". I'm guessing this is specifically a critique of the Word web app, but the native Office apps also do "online, live collaboration", and it all generally just works. Even Apple's overlooked suite feels more mature (and offers a dramatically better user experience) than LibreOffice.

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