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Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

newscientist.com

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Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#41

Post by ars »

hutzlibu wrote: post #33
LoveMortuus wrote: post #4

> The computer ran in cycles of 45 minutes of calculating sums of consecutive integers to simulate a computational workload, which required 0.3 microwatts of power, and 15 minutes of standby, which required 0.24 microwatts. The computer itself measured the current output from the device and this data was stored in the cloud for researchers to analyse. > Christopher Howe at the University of Cambridge and his colleagu…

"blue-green algae might not be very scalable..." Actually, the idea is, that they are very scalable, because to make more solar panels you have to manufacture more panels. To make more algae(and get more power), you just let it grow. So you still have to build more sun exposed tanks but this is very low tech, compared to cleanroom solar panel manufacturing. What is missing is probably a breakthrough in genetic modifi…

The energy embodied in the metal used to make their housing is more than the entire possible energy they could make in any reasonable timeframe.

So no, this isn't scalable.

On top of that despite them saying the anode was not corrected, it's almost certain the algae aren't making any electricity at all, it's all coming from the cathode and anode oxidizing.

It's easy enough to tell - just let them die and let's see if there is a different in energy output. I can almost guarantee there will not be any difference.

Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#42

Post by marcosdumay »

hutzlibu wrote: post #39
ineedasername wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only scalable if the material & labor costs to build and maintain the tanks is within a certain margin. How many m^2 of algae is required to equal a m^2 of solar? From there you could calculate relative costs, given reasonable assumptions of lowered tank/algae costs as the tech matured.

"How many m^2 of algae is required to equal a m^2 of solar?" Some years ago, the efficency was at around 1 % vs. 20% with solar panels, meaning you would need 20× the space, meaning only dessert areas and big scale production worth it. And since no one did it big scale yet, means it is economically not worth it yet. But the cost of further algae itself are zero, which makes the idea attractive in theory. Like I said,…

Hum... A large share of the solar costs are on support and installation. Those are proportional to the area, and are even higher (by area) for algae, because algae requires some water, and water is heavy.

So, if they need 20x the area, just their support and installation will already cost some 5x more than a full solar plant.

Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#43

Post by wedn3sday »

hutzlibu wrote: post #39
ineedasername wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only scalable if the material & labor costs to build and maintain the tanks is within a certain margin. How many m^2 of algae is required to equal a m^2 of solar? From there you could calculate relative costs, given reasonable assumptions of lowered tank/algae costs as the tech matured.

"How many m^2 of algae is required to equal a m^2 of solar?" Some years ago, the efficency was at around 1 % vs. 20% with solar panels, meaning you would need 20× the space, meaning only dessert areas and big scale production worth it. And since no one did it big scale yet, means it is economically not worth it yet. But the cost of further algae itself are zero, which makes the idea attractive in theory. Like I said,…

Seems like floating applications might works as well, a large raft of connected plastic bladders on a reservoir might work. Reduce water loss due to evaporation by decreasing light hitting the reservoir at the same time as generating power.

Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#44

Post by etiam »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #37
hutzlibu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"blue-green algae might not be very scalable..." Actually, the idea is, that they are very scalable, because to make more solar panels you have to manufacture more panels. To make more algae(and get more power), you just let it grow. So you still have to build more sun exposed tanks but this is very low tech, compared to cleanroom solar panel manufacturing. What is missing is probably a breakthrough in genetic modifi…

I had a dream that some super-algae leaked out of a lab and colonized the oceans killing nearly all marine life.

Are you sure your memory isn't just a bit hazy from last time that happened? I think there are credible reasons to believe the lab leak never happened, but anyone could be forgiven for losing some details in two and a half billion years.

Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#47

Post by Maursault »

LoveMortuus wrote: post #4

> The computer ran in cycles of 45 minutes of calculating sums of consecutive integers to simulate a computational workload, which required 0.3 microwatts of power, and 15 minutes of standby, which required 0.24 microwatts. The computer itself measured the current output from the device and this data was stored in the cloud for researchers to analyse. > Christopher Howe at the University of Cambridge and his colleagu…

Thank you for the accurate and concise summary of what I wanted to know, but I think that this has larger implications that has nothing to do with computers or algae. As you observed, that is really not a lot of power. And off I go... it is incredible that that is not a lot of power, iow, what can be achieved optimizing for low-power is nothing short of miraculous, and we as a global society... we should suck it up, optimize for low power, and immediately ban everything contributing to Global Warming, and stop it by force if necessary, you know, optimized for zero casualties using psyops and harmless hallucinogenic bombs. We should get with our allies, get China on board, and take over the world, and stop Global Warming with a quickness. Power hogs can read books and sleep at night instead of insisting on more and more power.

Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#48

Post by LoveMortuus »

hutzlibu wrote: post #33
LoveMortuus wrote: post #4

> The computer ran in cycles of 45 minutes of calculating sums of consecutive integers to simulate a computational workload, which required 0.3 microwatts of power, and 15 minutes of standby, which required 0.24 microwatts. The computer itself measured the current output from the device and this data was stored in the cloud for researchers to analyse. > Christopher Howe at the University of Cambridge and his colleagu…

"blue-green algae might not be very scalable..." Actually, the idea is, that they are very scalable, because to make more solar panels you have to manufacture more panels. To make more algae(and get more power), you just let it grow. So you still have to build more sun exposed tanks but this is very low tech, compared to cleanroom solar panel manufacturing. What is missing is probably a breakthrough in genetic modifi…

To be fair, I was unable to find the original document, so we don't actually know how many watts the algae generator can provide, we only know how much the computer that they used consumed, also they did note that after 6 months the algae was dead.

That being said, I'm sceptical about the scalability of the algae generator because it's efficiency would have to increase by about 1000x (if we assume that right now it can generate what the computer used while calculating).

Today an average AA battery has t the capacity of 3Wh some even 4Wh. And at 3Wh you could, theoretically, charge your phone at 5V 1A for like half an hour or there about.

Our in other words, what I'm talking about when I question the scalability is energy density. That's the reason why you can do more then 700km with a car that runs on fossil fuels and maybe 350km if it's not too hot and not to cool with an electric car.

Could we engineer there algae to be 1000x times more efficient or even just 500x more efficient, since as long as the algae is alive you don't really need to charge anything. You do need the sun though, these are, from what I understand photosynthetic algae.

Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#49

Post by LoveMortuus »

marcosdumay wrote: post #42
hutzlibu wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How many m^2 of algae is required to equal a m^2 of solar?" Some years ago, the efficency was at around 1 % vs. 20% with solar panels, meaning you would need 20× the space, meaning only dessert areas and big scale production worth it. And since no one did it big scale yet, means it is economically not worth it yet. But the cost of further algae itself are zero, which makes the idea attractive in theory. Like I said,…

Hum... A large share of the solar costs are on support and installation. Those are proportional to the area, and are even higher (by area) for algae, because algae requires some water, and water is heavy. So, if they need 20x the area, just their support and installation will already cost some 5x more than a full solar plant.

Also these algae need an open system so that they don't kul themselves. And I think they might be much more sensitive to heat and especially cold then solar panels.

Algae are living creatures just like humans and stuff, so keeping them alive is probably harder then with solar which is basically just nicely arranged rocks and crystals.

Re: Computer powered by colony of blue-green algae has run for six months

#50

Post by ars »

phyalow wrote: post #17
LoveMortuus wrote: post #4

> The computer ran in cycles of 45 minutes of calculating sums of consecutive integers to simulate a computational workload, which required 0.3 microwatts of power, and 15 minutes of standby, which required 0.24 microwatts. The computer itself measured the current output from the device and this data was stored in the cloud for researchers to analyse. > Christopher Howe at the University of Cambridge and his colleagu…

I remember running a calculator via a potato battery when I was much younger.

Just in case you don't know: The energy to power your calculator did not come from the potato. It came from the metals you used in the potato. The metals are slowly oxidizing and that reaction (a kind of burning) produces the energy.

The same thing is happening here - it's not the algae producing energy, it's the metal anode and cathode.

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