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'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

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41–47 of 47 posts

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#41

Hasn't the economy for the last twenty years been mostly funded by consumer debt? With rising housing prices and stagnant wages, this how trickle up happened

Maybe one should stop the blame game i.e. "The g-government d-did it!!!" and wonder why debt is increasing in general. The answer is that saved money is taken out of circulation. To keep the economy alive, a certain amount of money must flow through it.

Let's say $20 trillion must flow through the economy per year. People save $1 trillion. Only $19 trillion flow through the economy next year. Usually companies would simply borrow a new $1 trillion through loans into existence. However, with population growth slowing down, companies don't need to grow and invest more so they stopped borrowing. Consumers stepped in until they too thought that they have no need for further debt. To get back to $20 trillion, the government must now borrow money on behalf of all the people who aren't credit worthy enough to borrow money. The more people save, the more the government needs to replenish the circulating money supply just to stay at $20 trillion.

Of course in practice the government doesn't try to maintain a stable GDP, it wants a stable GDP plus some. The reason for that is that increases in productivity necessitate economic growth to maintain full employment. Yes, it's quite stupid. If you have an economy that isn't growing, then increasing productivity will concentrate income within the most skilled individuals even if they have no need for further income, which reduces overall economic efficiency as money is being allocated away from basic needs like housing or food and into the financial market.

Ever wondered why poverty appears to be a "human constant"? Because we think we should give all the money to the most skilled individuals without any regard to whether they actually need that money. When you think about it, jobs shouldn't be allocated to the most skilled, they should be allocated to those who need the money most as their spending will drive further economic activity that then lets the skilled work on useful things. Someone with a broken down car knows better how to spend their money than an investor speculating that you are going to spend your money on a $800 juicer. However, we know that the guy with the broken down car is in distress and we love abusing that situation to our benefit despite the fact that the economic inefficiency is obvious to the naked eye.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#42

> ... high-level staffers at Affirm and Afterpay ... emphasized the accessibility of these services, especially for younger consumers looking to bolster their credit and consumers working to restore their credit scores Something about that feels pretty dystopian.

Why?

Seems like a financial version of Nestlé expecting adulation about how they provide accessible milk to third world countries.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#44

Assuming you have the money why is using these services a bad financial decision? Isn’t a good idea to postpone payments in an inflationary economy when there’s no interest?

It's like Vegas. Some people might leave the city with more in their wallet then when they flew in, but in aggregate there'll be a lot of losers.

If that wasn't true, the lending companies would know there's only little to no profit to be made, and they'd stay out of it.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll quote my comment elsewhere: "BNPL providers are held to far higher standards than Credit Card, Personal Loan, or Payday Loan companies. I'm not sure I understand the HN addiction to attacking them. Unlike all the examples above, Afterpay doesn't charge interest, has capped late payment fees, and has a very low debt ceiling. It's the perfect way for younger people to learn how to manage debt." I should have menti…

Yes, a high functioning government would essentially wipe out 2/3 or more of consumer lending. As an example, Singapore literally forces some of your income into a savings fund that's just for housing, retirement, and healthcare. It's not something optional -- the nanny state literally taxes you into being a fucking adult. And it works.

The Australian government does the same thing; and also permits BNPL.

BNPL has been thoroughly, thoroughly investigated by the Australian government because people have the same conclusion as the HNers here - 'they must be doing something wrong'

But if anyone does what I do, which is to look more deeply into the topic, they'll discover that this is actually the least predatory form of consumer debt (if not the least, close to it), and for this reason governments are content to continue with it.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#46
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BNPL providers are held to far higher standards than Credit Card, Personal Loan, or Payday Loan companies. I'm not sure I understand the HN addiction to attacking them. Unlike all the examples above, Afterpay doesn't charge interest, has capped late payment fees, and has a very low debt ceiling. It's the perfect way for younger people to learn how to manage debt.

If a young person is learning to manage debt with them, that necessarily implies that they don't yet comprehend what taking debt means and cannot reasonably be expected to fully understand the consequences - which may make the contract invalid.

This definitely isn't enough to make the contract invalid, however you could prove every BNBL business wrong and put them out of business if you find a court that agrees with you.

Re: 'Buy now, pay later' is sending the TikTok generation spiraling into debt

#47

> ... high-level staffers at Affirm and Afterpay ... emphasized the accessibility of these services, especially for younger consumers looking to bolster their credit and consumers working to restore their credit scores Something about that feels pretty dystopian.

Agree, I think there's also an overblown perception that you need to obtain credit and loans in order to build a decent credit rating. Which whilst true, doesn't really disadvantage you if you don't.
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