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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#41
post #30

Vipassana style meditation (minfulness) should always be combined with Metta (lovingkindness), especially for westerners. That's the advice I keep seeing.

Vipassana is insight meditation, not mindfulness and not really appropriate for beginners. The closest equivalent to mindfulness would be concentration, or samadhi.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#42

Bound to happen. Why do you think Buddha has to leave all his wealth and kingdom before even starting the journey of mindfulness, leaving everything behind? The western adaptation is reducing meditation and mindfulness to a "tool" of relieving stress and better ones mental well-being. As easy as downloading an app and stay calm for few minutes. Unfortunately, this is not ideal. The traditional way is to seek a guru w…

I don't know that it's necessarily fair to describe this as a purely Western phenomenon. The Lamas were a hereditary elite who ruled over Tibet in a brutal caste system which reduced most of the people in it to the status of serfs, and all with their own particular strain of Buddhism used to justify and excuse it all. On our fridge, my wife has a picture of the Dalai Lama wearing a big fancy watch on his wrist. I alw…

In a way, it is good for a famous spiritual leader to have obvious human flaws. I don't know too much about modern Buddhism but I don't think it would be good for Buddhists to worship their leader as being more than a mere mortal who might enjoy wearing a fancy watch.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#44

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

“Good person camouflage”. Nailed it, I love that.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#45

Having lived in Boulder CO for several years, which is basically the Mecca of Americanized mindfulness, I can attest that this is true. The most ardent practitioners that I met were invariably self obsessed.

I spent a week in Denver and boulder and continuously got the eerie vibe that every person I met who moved there, is an example of the most self centered person I would have met in any other situation elsewhere. I suppose the type of young person who’d move to CO “for the outdoors” is gonna select for the trend. Everything, including the assholish cycling, was indicative of that. Noped out of that place for this reason.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#46
People assume this is a bad outcome, but in a society where "being true to one's authentic self" is promoted as the main virtue, one would be expected to embrace selfish behaviors if they reflect. It's a low-brow blending of Nietzsche and Rand, but marketed as proto-communist mysticism. Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what the world owes you!

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#47
I don’t really get why this is evidence when it’s just asking an ethics question and having people “let their mind wander”. The context they mention is extremely important.

Practicing mindfulness is not just letting your mind wander. It’s practice, just like exercising or coding. You get better at it with time, not just a Homer Simpson moment of following your thoughts after being asked a question about being a decent human being.

The whole idea of mindfulness is to get to know yourself better and work on the not so great parts such as when your ego gets involved. If you practice it today and have found tremendous results, great! Also if you tried it and it didn’t help much, that’s okay too.

I’ll continue to do it because it’s what I believe separates good from great in my life and helps me accomplish more. I’m glad they mentioned this:

> “The effects are much weaker than had been proposed.” Like Hafenbrack, he suspects the practice can still be useful – but whether you see the desired benefits may depend on many factors, including the meditators’ personality, motivation and beliefs, he says. “Context is really important.”

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#49

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

Seems like an unfair standard to hold for these people over any other people.

Very few people are equipped to handle crazy people on the street, even among people who are trying to become better people, whatever that may mean to them.

You yourself attended the seminar on "loving-kindness" but couldn't resist dunking on these people some time later. But the thing is that I don't consider that inconsistent just because you were trying to improve yourself.

Even if the seminar were about helping crazy people that were standing in front of self-help seminars, it's still an unfair standard.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#50

Bound to happen. Why do you think Buddha has to leave all his wealth and kingdom before even starting the journey of mindfulness, leaving everything behind? The western adaptation is reducing meditation and mindfulness to a "tool" of relieving stress and better ones mental well-being. As easy as downloading an app and stay calm for few minutes. Unfortunately, this is not ideal. The traditional way is to seek a guru w…

It's not like the West doesn't have its own meditative and contemplative traditions. The Cynics and Stoics of the Classical world could have very diverse attitudes to wealth and material comforts, with the former being quite more disdainful of them and quite literally "living like dogs". We see the same thing in Western ascetic monasticism later on - some Western monks and nuns focus on helping others and doing their assigned duty in society, while others pursue a more focused spiritual and contemplative path.
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