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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#41

Post by jrapdx3 »

ADHD is a common condition in adults, estimated to be around 3-5% of the population. It's very frequently comorbid with other behavioral disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. But even "pure" ADHD can be quite disadvantageous. People with ADHD are much less likely to finish school, have trouble staying employed, more likely to be divorced, have greater health care utilization among other adverse outcomes.

Despite these factors only 20% of ADHD individuals receive treatment which can make a big difference. Medications can be helpful but are not by any means a "cure". Rather specific behavioral therapies are a necessary part of an effective treatment program.

As a physician specializing in behavioral health, I've treated a great number of ADHD adults. It's impressive how much improvement patients could make over a period of months to years as a result of their determined effort. I came to appreciate patients' innate talents that many were eventually able to exploit. It was gratifying to see some become top-tier innovators in their fields including technologies.

Of course people will "identify" unique traits as part of their sense of "self". ADHD individuals may come to regard aspects of their quirky cognitive styles as part of an "identity" but that's not necessarily the same as having ADHD as the biggest component.

Last thing I'll say is that ADHD is considered a developmental disorder. IOW there's no sharp line between having/not having it. The extent it's a problem depends on the context, which is a huge discussion topic in its own right.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#42

Post by FollowingTheDao »

chrischen wrote: post #39
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. The author frankly does not know what he’s talking about. And, clinically, he does not have ADHD. I have a mood disorder (NPSLE). I am on permanent d…

> If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. I’m not sure this is correct. If someone is managing their ADHD it doesn’t mean they don’t have it.

The expression of a disease or disorder is all that really matters. If he went into a doctors office today, instead of say 10 years ago, they would not diagnosed him with ADHD.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#43

Post by FollowingTheDao »

iamdbtoo wrote: post #40
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. The author frankly does not know what he’s talking about. And, clinically, he does not have ADHD. I have a mood disorder (NPSLE). I am on permanent d…

ADHD is a physical condition, not a mental illness. You can still have it an not be negatively affected by it.

All mental illnesses are physical conditions.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#44

Post by chrischen »

A lot of the benefits of neuro-diversity are seen at the population level. The bearers of these traits are “taking one for the team” so to speak because they are preserving a genetic trait potentially useful for the future but may be painful in the present. There’s going to be a wide range of suffering though, from manageable ADHD to crippling depression. Society should simply support these people and mitigate near term suffering as much as possible, but calling these things a disorder isn’t wholly inaccurate because they can be reasonably described as problematic for current day life, even if potentially advantageous in future scenarios.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#45

Post by djur »

drewcoo wrote: post #31
GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

That's not a straw man. He's just stating the same thing you are when you say: > disorders require that the deviation amount to a disorder That is medicalizing diversity. Creating "disorders" where no one is bothered by them. This is not uncommon in psychology. In the 1970s, homosexuality was also a "disorder."

I think the underlying tension here comes from the fact that people are currently prescribed drugs for ADHD on the basis that it is a disorder that needs to be treated, and a lot of those people would like to still have access to that medication while also being less stigmatized. The analogy to homosexuality is problematic because in that same analogy Adderall is equivalent to conversion therapy.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#47

Post by taurath »

thenerdhead wrote: post #14

The part I hate most today is that if you relate to a video on ADHD/DID/Depression/Schizophrenia/etc, you will be fed the content until you convince yourself you have a “character trait”. That’s a serious problem with long term effects on society. I’m very sure I sit somewhere on the spectrum and have depressive disorder markers as well. But the last thing I want to do is to promote these traits. I am not proud of th…

To me its pretty unconscionable that you can't opt out of parts of suggestion algorithms.

The only ability to say "no" that you have is to not use the platform, and given how much useful content coalesces into just a few platforms, you're basically saying "no" to getting content in this fashion

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#48

Post by hatware »

Wow, really nice article that gives practical examples of what ADD/HD looks like. I am not officially diagnosed, but I am 99% sure ADD/HD is something I have coped with my entire life. This has come up only recently with the pandemic forcing my schedule to change, and I started to realize how much the "9-5 routine" was keeping my train on its tracks and hiding any semblance of an attention disorder.

It's really interesting how attention disorders show and hide themselves. Like the author, I had a consistently inconsistent way of losing or forgetting things. I don't tend to be late or forget appointments, but I have a hard time scheduling them in the first place. I have rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which explains why relationships, family included, have ended poorly and needed a long time from which to recover. I did not complete college and had no idea what I was doing the entire time despite breezing through high school. I have many abandoned and unfinished projects around the house. I have been fortunate to receive accommodations at work such as choosing slightly different hours as needed, but now I understand why that was something I needed.

It hits you like a ton of bricks when you realize "I've had ADHD my whole life" because it explains every negative experience you've ever had. Having authoritarian type parents was the cherry on top.

> (W)hen the world has been willing to let me what I can do in the way that I can do it, the results have been pretty good. When the world has insisted that I do things the way everyone else does them, it hasn't always gone so well.

This is such a succinct description of the main issue with attention disorders. I think the author makes a very good argument that it's the stigma, not the disorder, that is causing more problems than anything. I know stigma against disorders like this is why it never came up.

I intend to obtain an official diagnosis and potentially try medications. The thing is, it's incredibly overwhelming to choose because half of you knows you're doing pretty well right now, why change? The other part is wondering what your true potential looks like, and fighting against how much work and experimentation you think that will take.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#49

Post by jeffheard »

GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

I find ADHD to be an "occasional" disorder. I feel very much like the author much of the time, but honestly I want it to continue to be researched as a disorder, because I want strategies and medications that are better than post-it notes and Adderall (and yes, I've tried lots and no, none of them are better for me than the occasional 5mg of Adderall).

Most of the time, ADD works in my favor. But sometimes, (and NOT always due to "societal expectations") I need my brain to work differently than it does, and for those occasions the meds do wonders. But I truly hate the after-effects, thus I rarely take them.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#50

Post by lghh »

jrapdx3 wrote: post #41

ADHD is a common condition in adults, estimated to be around 3-5% of the population. It's very frequently comorbid with other behavioral disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. But even "pure" ADHD can be quite disadvantageous. People with ADHD are much less likely to finish school, have trouble staying employed, more likely to be divorced, have greater health care utilization…

I am 30. I got diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago and I started treatment (adderall and lifestyle changes).

Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it.

Once I began treatment, the change was almost overnight. I know I'm just one data point in a sea of data points, but I really just want to add that I'm on the other end of the parent comment and getting diagnosed, other than my marriage and the birth of my son, was the best thing that's ever happened to me.

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