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Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

abcdesktop.io

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Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#41

Post by pid-1 »

chrisshroba wrote: post #35
TuringTest wrote: post #21

Why do I keep getting this distinct impression that people use containers to keep reinventing OS processes, but "in the cloud!"? Next thing, you'll see announced a platform for reusable container services that can be dynamically linked from other containers - to avoid including them multiple times in your application containers that share the same version, and we'll have come full circle. Is there a subtle detail abo…

If I give someone a sample docker-compose file, they can immediately run my service regardless of OS. If I distribute manually, I need to provide instructions for setting up the proper dev environment and packages for several common OSes and distros (brew maybe, apt, rpm, etc.). Speaking personally, I know how to write a proper Dockerfile, (and it's a skill that's learnable in a couple hours). I have no idea how to d…

Docker's managed VM strategy for Windows and MacOS is really powerful, I'm not sure why other applications don't do that.

Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#42

Post by cmroanirgo »

chrisshroba wrote: post #35
TuringTest wrote: post #21

Why do I keep getting this distinct impression that people use containers to keep reinventing OS processes, but "in the cloud!"? Next thing, you'll see announced a platform for reusable container services that can be dynamically linked from other containers - to avoid including them multiple times in your application containers that share the same version, and we'll have come full circle. Is there a subtle detail abo…

If I give someone a sample docker-compose file, they can immediately run my service regardless of OS. If I distribute manually, I need to provide instructions for setting up the proper dev environment and packages for several common OSes and distros (brew maybe, apt, rpm, etc.). Speaking personally, I know how to write a proper Dockerfile, (and it's a skill that's learnable in a couple hours). I have no idea how to d…

There's a lot more to running a service than getting it running easily. Longevity/stability through applying updates should be engineered too.

The problem is when using Docker, you can't tell what the dependencies are for your app. Telling me i need node or Go or php and/or what database or redis, etc etc gives me an instant feel for how the deployment, as well as how security updates, need to be applied. Docker is just a black box by comparison... at least to me. All my attempts at running docker solutions on small vms have ended badly (ports opened publically, rampant disk use, poor log files management, lack of security updates...). Seriously, I wish devs would at least list the tech stacks they're using in their apps in the readme.

However, i do grok that people who've embraced the ecosystem would like it that way... but not all techs like it.

For me, the best projects are those that lay it all out, warts and all and then have a separate repo that manages the docker state.

Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#43

Post by knacky »

InitialBP wrote: post #14
dehrmann wrote: post #11

Not sure how the timing works, but that might be an unfortunate choice of name. Or maybe there's no real audience overlap, so it's ok.

Care to elaborate?

I think they're referring to the pop song, "abcdefu" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCDEFU)

Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#45

Post by TuringTest »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #34
TuringTest wrote: post #21

Why do I keep getting this distinct impression that people use containers to keep reinventing OS processes, but "in the cloud!"? Next thing, you'll see announced a platform for reusable container services that can be dynamically linked from other containers - to avoid including them multiple times in your application containers that share the same version, and we'll have come full circle. Is there a subtle detail abo…

> Is there a subtle detail about packaging software for distribution as isolated executables that I'm missing? In practice it's a nightmare, particularly for legacy software that demands a ton of dynamic linking to system-installed libraries.

Yeah, but that's a problem with dynamically linked dependencies. If you statically link all your dependencies into a single executable, doesn't it work conceptually the same as a Docker container with all your tech stack contained in a single package?

Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#46

Post by [deleted] »

TuringTest wrote: post #45
qbasic_forever wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a subtle detail about packaging software for distribution as isolated executables that I'm missing? In practice it's a nightmare, particularly for legacy software that demands a ton of dynamic linking to system-installed libraries.

Yeah, but that's a problem with dynamically linked dependencies. If you statically link all your dependencies into a single executable, doesn't it work conceptually the same as a Docker container with all your tech stack contained in a single package?

[deleted]

Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#47

Post by paulgb »

TuringTest wrote: post #45
qbasic_forever wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a subtle detail about packaging software for distribution as isolated executables that I'm missing? In practice it's a nightmare, particularly for legacy software that demands a ton of dynamic linking to system-installed libraries.

Yeah, but that's a problem with dynamically linked dependencies. If you statically link all your dependencies into a single executable, doesn't it work conceptually the same as a Docker container with all your tech stack contained in a single package?

Even a statically linked program can have dependencies on the system it’s running on, like system fonts and root certificates. Containers ensure a standard environment that accounts for those differences, in a language-agnostic way.

Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#48

Post by paulgb »

ta988 wrote: post #33
jitl wrote: post #13

Is this using Guacamole for its VNC client? In college [2012] I ran Guacamole on my home server for RDP remoting into my desktop PC from a Chromebook, and the performance was excellent. Curious to see what the experience is like with more newfangled Cloud Native stuff.

Guacamole is impressive I agree.

Webtop is attempting something similar to this using Guacamole rather than NoVNC. https://hub.docker.com/r/linuxserver/webtop

I know very little about how the two compare.

Re: Abcdesktop – a cloud native desktopless system

#49

Post by liotier »

rkeene2 wrote: post #27
TuringTest wrote: post #21

Why do I keep getting this distinct impression that people use containers to keep reinventing OS processes, but "in the cloud!"? Next thing, you'll see announced a platform for reusable container services that can be dynamically linked from other containers - to avoid including them multiple times in your application containers that share the same version, and we'll have come full circle. Is there a subtle detail abo…

It's the same reason people keep inventing VMs. Every process is also a VM (and can only do what the hypervisor... kernel... allows), but it's a more convenient abstraction to run a new kernel and its processes in a hardware emulating VM within that VM for many kinds of workloads, despite the overhead of emulating hardware. Containers are a middle-ground, and a useful abstraction -- where you can have a group of proc…

And then, one day, single-system-image will be back in fashion and processes will migrate across the cluster - like in the good old days of Openmosix, but maybe with Kubernetes-like robustness...
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