Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

driving.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 111 posts

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#41

Post by s0rce »

giantg2 wrote: post #31
zeryx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in Canada don't have a home, they rent - especially in BC.

If they rent, where do they park at that residence? That's where it makes sense to charge. How many of the renters without parking have a car? If it's really true that "Most people in Canada" don't have a home, then do you really think that the 66 gas stations in Vancouver can accommodate all those people?

I've usually parked my car on the street while renting, I just make sure that this is possible in neighborhoods that I've chosen to rent. Because of this I've never purchased an EV.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#42

Post by crate_barre »

james_pm wrote: post #17
giantg2 wrote: post #12

This seems misguided to me. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is not having to go to a gas station. Most people can charge at home for their typical needs. Next, it makes sense to put then at a person's work, then at stores or public parking. And of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on highway gas stations and/or rest stops. Making all gas stations, especially urban ones, pay a fine for not having c…

Many people can not charge at home. Where I live (Toronto), street parking is common. It's not possible to charge on the street near your house. Condos have parking garages and unless they put a charger at each single spot, most of those people can't charge either. Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

Naive question, but aren’t we talking about installing an electrical outlet essentially? Some of these options look like they plug into a wall:

https://www.amazon.com/MUSTART-Portable-Charger-Electric-Cha...

Bare minimum the apartment building can work to install wall outlets in the garage, or very long extension cords.

Video: https://www.amazon.com/vdp/006d5bc8225646d086bb5afa191e52d8?...

That’s not asking for a lot from a building.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#43

Post by toomuchtodo »

deadmutex wrote: post #10
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Would be better to incentivize 24 hour grocery stores to provide low cost leases to fast DC charge networks. 20-30 minutes grocery shopping or dining is the new charge experience, versus five minute fill ups at your traditional petrol dispenser. Those who can will charge at home or work most of the time.

> 20-30 minutes grocery shopping or dining is the new charge experience I would say charging at work (during the day, using solar energy exported into the grid). Or at night, capturing off-peak power generation is the new charge experience. Currently, DC Fast Charging is very expensive to build out and using them frequently reduces battery capacity over time.

I agree, but DC fast charging is mandatory for road trips, and a necessary shim until work, home, and apartment charging infra gets scaled out (a friend has a Tesla but no home charging, they charge at the grocery store once per week, for example).

Colocate level 2 chargers (~10-15kw) where cars dwell for hours at a time, put Fast DC chargers where people need to eat or use a bathroom. Even a 120v outlet would be fine for use cases like long term parking at an airport, which fully charges an EV in ~4-5 days.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#44

Post by giantg2 »

jbay808 wrote: post #28
giantg2 wrote: post #12

This seems misguided to me. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is not having to go to a gas station. Most people can charge at home for their typical needs. Next, it makes sense to put then at a person's work, then at stores or public parking. And of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on highway gas stations and/or rest stops. Making all gas stations, especially urban ones, pay a fine for not having c…

> Most people can charge at home for their typical needs A lot of people in Vancouver can't! For example they may live in an apartment building whose strata council refuses to install chargers in the garage, or they may live in somebody's basement suite and not have access to a garage at all. (I'd rather charge my car at a cafe, though.)

"For example they may live in an apartment building whose strata council refuses to install chargers in the garage,"

True, but then why fine these gas stations? It would make more sense to fine landlords for not providing charging infrastructure under some circumstances (on request, or above some unit number, or even just free market of renters being willing to pay more for a rental with charging infrastructure).

"or they may live in somebody's basement suite and not have access to a garage at all."

True, I was thinking of the public chargers for this as they are likely street parking.

"I'd rather charge my car at a cafe, though."

I agree.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#46

Post by capableweb »

james_pm wrote: post #17
giantg2 wrote: post #12

This seems misguided to me. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is not having to go to a gas station. Most people can charge at home for their typical needs. Next, it makes sense to put then at a person's work, then at stores or public parking. And of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on highway gas stations and/or rest stops. Making all gas stations, especially urban ones, pay a fine for not having c…

Many people can not charge at home. Where I live (Toronto), street parking is common. It's not possible to charge on the street near your house. Condos have parking garages and unless they put a charger at each single spot, most of those people can't charge either. Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

> Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

Not sure what Toyota has to do with anything (can't find them mentioned in the article), but I think that problem is a catch-22 problem. No one is gonna want to solve any issues about EV roll out unless people start using EV, but no one is gonna want to use EV unless there is realistic attempts on solving the issues.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#47

Post by b112 »

giantg2 wrote: post #12

This seems misguided to me. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is not having to go to a gas station. Most people can charge at home for their typical needs. Next, it makes sense to put then at a person's work, then at stores or public parking. And of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on highway gas stations and/or rest stops. Making all gas stations, especially urban ones, pay a fine for not having c…

This seems misguided to me.

It costs the city nothing, and is a revenue stream from those which don't comply. Win #1.

It allows tourists, travellers a place to charge, which they know is maintained, and works, and is enroute to somewhere.

There is no downside here, for the city.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#49

Post by mostertoaster »

foobarian wrote: post #7

Given it's Vancouver couldn't they crank up the property taxes instead? Might relieve some of the real estate pressure coming from second-home owners as well - win-win!

Ahh yes because raising property taxes definitely makes housing more affordable.

I’m going to start creating leases for renters where they have a choice to pay less overall rent, but they pay property taxes, or they don’t pay property taxes but pay more in rent.

So for example lease will be $2000 a month, or $1600 a month plus property taxes that are currently $300 a month.

I think every landlord should do this.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#50

Post by brewdad »

bluedino wrote: post #22
samcheng wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! As someone who just completed a 2,000 mile electric road trip, it wasn't TOO inconvenient, but we had to choose our dining based on what was near the charger, and we mostly chose our lodging based on who had overnight charging available. Shopping and meals fit really well into the (traveling) charging use case. I think a cafe would work as well, but I haven't visited a successful "charge cafe" yet. Of course,…

Let the market decide. Stores or restaurants can put chargers in if they want the customers

While I agree with the sentiment, I think some subsidization will be needed. Your average Mom and Pop diner can't possibly afford to pay full price to install a charging system. If you wait for the market to build it, they either will never get built or will only be built by the Walmarts of the world, the only ones who can afford it.
Post reply on HN