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Is Rust Web Yet?

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Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#41

Post by tempest_ »

41b696ef1113 wrote: post #26
jeroenhd wrote: post #8

> Yes! And it's freaking fast! Going by these benchmarks (click around to find your own use case) Rust is definitely fast, but not (much) faster than many other languages, including Javascript. https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r20&hw=... When it comes to JSON serializers, there is a Java framework that is faster than Rust, which is interesting to say the least. When you start comparing actual full…

Not that I think those metrics are all that relevant, but can someone explain to me how just-js ranks so highly? Very much defying my expectations in comparison with some of the top representatives of compiled languages.

A huge amount of time and money has been spent making JS as fast as it can be.

Additionally a lot of these benchmarks focus on things that the JS engines are very good at. It isnt like they are running CPU intensive tasks in JS.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#42

Post by avl999 »

api wrote: post #28
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go

Go has a fat VM with GC. It’s great for lots of things but is not a systems language.

People are writing production level databases, distributed systems in Go... ofcourse it's a systems language unless your definition of a systems language is something super narrow.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#43

Post by heavyset_go »

jackblemming wrote: post #11

Can some explain why I always get cult like vibes from the rust community?

It's like functional programming in that both functional programming and Rust tickle just the right parts of engineers' brains.

I like Rust, I write a lot of it, but I can't help but feel that Rust isn't "it". I think another language will pave the path Rust trail-blazed, at some point.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#44

Post by livinginfear »

> "Yes! And it's freaking fast!"

They're surely not talking about compilation times. Admittedly it's been a few years since I tried to build a web stack in Rust, but I felt like I was back in the 1990s dealing with the long compile times on modern hardware. Diesel was such a nightmare to use. It was poorly documented, and took a long time to compile even trivial example projects.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#45

Post by LAC-Tech »

I spent about the past month learning rust - and decided it just wasn't a usable language for me.

I think what it comes down to is that I'm just not that into bondage and discipline from a compiler. Yes, I know, it's trying to make my code 'safe', and I'm horribly cavalier and I should feel bad, but:

1. the borrow checker rejects valid programs, has a lot of corner cases it can't catch, and is in active development

2. people routinely write more inefficient code to satisfy it

3. people routinely freak out about 'unsafe', which is a bit much given the first point

Anyway, YMMV. Maybe you're smarter than me, or rust fits your mindset better, or you enjoy asking for help on discord all day, but I am so glad not be using it anymore.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#46

Post by CraigJPerry »

jackblemming wrote: post #11

Can some explain why I always get cult like vibes from the rust community?

Because Rust has a vocal community and that noise far over represents its usage here on HN.

People aren’t searching for Rust much:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0dsbpg6,%2...

Because it’s not a popular language, cobol and prolog are more popular: https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

And yet hardly a day goes by without a rust story on hn and for the past 5 years it’s scored most loved language on the annual stack overflow developer survey.

That said, Rust has an exit from cult status and a starting path toward mainstream in its sights. If Rust makes it into the kernel then that is the beginning of Rust.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#47

Post by cillian64 »

jackblemming wrote: post #11

Can some explain why I always get cult like vibes from the rust community?

I’d guess that not many people are using rust for work compared to how many use it for fun. If that’s true then most people using rust are doing so because they enjoy it, not because they’re forced to. So most people with an active interest in the language are the ones who enjoy it. It’s similar for other niche languages which haven’t made it into many workplaces. Compare that to the mainstream languages which a lot of us have to use whether we like them or not, and so we have opinions about them which are not necessarily positive.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#48

Post by ReaLNero »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #45

I spent about the past month learning rust - and decided it just wasn't a usable language for me. I think what it comes down to is that I'm just not that into bondage and discipline from a compiler. Yes, I know, it's trying to make my code 'safe', and I'm horribly cavalier and I should feel bad, but: 1. the borrow checker rejects valid programs, has a lot of corner cases it can't catch, and is in active development 2…

> the borrow checker rejects valid programs

Yup, this is the tradeoff you have to make to catch the wide variety of bugs. For personal use, probably not worthwhile, but it definitely pays off for the safety it provides in production contexts.

The way I view Rust's philosophy is "it's better to catch bugs at the compile stage than at the execution stage".

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#49

Post by tempest_ »

api wrote: post #30
DixieDev wrote: post #3

"Rust has mature and production ready frameworks in Actix Web and Rocket" Why is Rocket considered production ready when it's only just at version 0.5? Similar <1.0 stories can be found on crates for sqlx, rusqlite, and postgres. Am I wrong in assuming the API must be quite stable before it can receive the 'production ready' label?

Rust versioning is different than the custom in lots of other languages. There are lots of perfectly good mature 0.x libraries.

Rust definitely loves a good zer0ver, for better and worse.

Re: Is Rust Web Yet?

#50

Post by LAC-Tech »

livinginfear wrote: post #44

> "Yes! And it's freaking fast!" They're surely not talking about compilation times. Admittedly it's been a few years since I tried to build a web stack in Rust, but I felt like I was back in the 1990s dealing with the long compile times on modern hardware. Diesel was such a nightmare to use. It was poorly documented, and took a long time to compile even trivial example projects.

In fairness to rust, compiler speed has gotten a lot better. Can't speak for every crate though..
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