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Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

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Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#41

An interesting observation is that over the years, I've sort of found that if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions, or I'm not thinking about the problem the right way. For example, you come up with some weird programming idea to solve a problem and no results are found -- I'm almost always headed down the wrong path. This has been proved to me over and over again as sort of a can…

I googled a phone number recently. It was the first result, got my answer. The rest of the results were websites for physical locations I had been recently, including a hospital, none of which had any relationship to the phone number.

Google is _not_ a good guideline for asking the right questions. It is trying to make as much money as possible and it will scramble anything it can think of to do that. Don't use that as a guideline for how you are thinking about questions.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Broken" is a stretch. It gives the only result that could be reasonably expected by anyone making that query in good faith. If you're genuinely expecting a result like "never," then I wonder, would you also expect a result of "never" for the query "When did Neal Armstrong set foot on the Moon?" (notice the misspelling of his name)

But "Mars" is not simply a misspelling of the correct object, it confuses two distinct objects. A better comparison would be "When did Louis Armstrong set foot on the Moon?"

Amusingly, "what date did Louis Armstrong land on the Moon" displays the same behavior of showing the date "July 20, 1969" and no indication that it answered a different question than the one you asked.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#43
> I already know what an Exception is, so I don't want to scroll halfway down the page to find what I'm looking for.

I can’t relate to this. That example, of the first result being the canonical documentation on the subject, is a search engine working exactly the way I want.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#44

Also noticed a recent change that Google did, if I search for e.g:- Volvo XC 60, it does not show me the Volvo XC 60 page on Volvo.com, it instead shows the ad that Volvo paid for and a bunch of other ads. So they essentially don’t want you to click on the organic link that points to Volvo.com. They want Volvo to know that all the traffic to them is being sent due to the Ad and not from any organic links. This is wha…

It is the first organic result after the ads. This has basically always been the case.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#45

An interesting observation is that over the years, I've sort of found that if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions, or I'm not thinking about the problem the right way. For example, you come up with some weird programming idea to solve a problem and no results are found -- I'm almost always headed down the wrong path. This has been proved to me over and over again as sort of a can…

>"if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions" I used to think this way too, but I've come to realize that Google has turned from a search engine that returns results based on my input to an answer engine that actively tries to reframe whatever I enter into some other more generic query - usually with the intent of selling me something or returning SEO spam. I've also found that the o…

Nowadays you should google using what in 2005 would be considered "the wrong way to search". Back then it was all about keywords, quotes and so on. For example if you wanted to know if dogs could eat apples you'd search:

> dog apple dangerous

Today you should search:

> can dogs eat apples

And you get way better results with the second form. I've noticed that people who are stuck thinking that the right way to google is still the former overlap a lot with the crowd that keeps complaining google is worse now than it was before.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#46

I would say that I have the exact opposite experience. My company is moving from IE to Edge as the default browser and I search for code issues on Edge (Bing). I usually do not like the results and then have to manually type in Google.com > search for code issues as that gives me better results.

I run into this on DuckDuckGo. I can try a bunch of different searches in DDG and not find what I need, then on Google it is the first result.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#47

An interesting observation is that over the years, I've sort of found that if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions, or I'm not thinking about the problem the right way. For example, you come up with some weird programming idea to solve a problem and no results are found -- I'm almost always headed down the wrong path. This has been proved to me over and over again as sort of a can…

>"if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions" I used to think this way too, but I've come to realize that Google has turned from a search engine that returns results based on my input to an answer engine that actively tries to reframe whatever I enter into some other more generic query - usually with the intent of selling me something or returning SEO spam. I've also found that the o…

Back when I started at Google, they at least said they actively targeted "long-tail" queries to gain market share. The thinking was that people would use a search engine until they hit some query that their usual search engine failed on. Then they'd give another search engine (perhaps Google) a try, so if you really targeted those tough queries and were at least decent at the common queries, you'd gain market share.

Though, even when I was doing indexing changes at Google, the common practice was to do A/B testing with both the most common queries and a uniformly random sample (see reservoir sampling) of queries in order to justify a go-live of indexing changes. The former explicitly over-weights common queries, and the latter still optimizes for the common case. (In case you're wondering, the worst query I had to manually check in A/B testing was [flesh hook suspension].)

Google used to turn off some of the query re-writing logic (that tries to fix your query) if you used a query operator. (It has been a while, but I think maybe even their "Kansas" user info database kept track of the last time you used an operator, and would turn off some of the cleverness if you had recently used a search operator, as it was a good signal that you were a power user capable of optimizing your own queries.) My understanding is that they don't disable any of the too-clever bits for power users any more, and that everything uses all of the cleverness of learn-to-rank all the time.

I suspect it has gotten even worse with learn-to-rank, as it must be incredibly difficult to intentionally under-weight the uncommon/difficult queries.

They did keep track of when users re-issued similar queries in a short period, as a signal that the ranking algorithm wasn't doing well. I think an optimal system would use learn-to-rank for the first query in a related sequence of queries, and then switch to turning some of the smarts off, and finally switching to a learn-to-rank algorithm trained only on later queries in these related query sequences. That way, they can avoid the secondary learn-to-rank instance from over-fitting the median/easy queries.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Broken" is a stretch. It gives the only result that could be reasonably expected by anyone making that query in good faith. If you're genuinely expecting a result like "never," then I wonder, would you also expect a result of "never" for the query "When did Neal Armstrong set foot on the Moon?" (notice the misspelling of his name)

What is “good faith” in that case though ? Some people will really not know (think kids for instance, but not only) The interesting part to me is that Google will show redirected queries from typos (“Did you mean “When did *Neil* Armstrong set foot on Mars” ?”) but not disclose the term it completely ignored. I makes it look like it parsed and validated all the search terms before coming up with the prominently displ…

> Some people will really not know (think kids for instance, but not only)

It seems very improbable that a kid would ask that question without having any preconceived notion whatsoever of a person with that name famously stepping foot on an extraterrestrial body. It's overwhelmingly likely that they have the famous 1969 event in mind, and that's why Google's response is appropriate.

Of course I'm not disputing that it wouldn't be even better for the Google response to explicitly correct the mistake in the query. I'm only disputing the fact that it's "broken." If you were asking this question of a human as some sort of test (but the human didn't know they were being tested), it would clearly be a "gotcha," and you could likely "fool" highly educated people who know full well that it was the Moon and not Mars.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#49
I know google search is probably not the same as google flights, but I spent a few hours recently (over a few days) using google flights and it was a delight to use compared to the Expedia children.

We had a bereavement in the family and had to book multiple independent tickets because we could not travel together. This was just after the Ukraine war started so prices had gone through the roof. Exact number of days was not that important as compared to the price and the duration and using google flights UI to slice and dice the data was such a joy. Want to freeze the airline and look at the alternatives - which include from and to dates, number of days of trips, or freeze any other parameter and analyze others, the response was sub-second. Did not eventually book through them since I did not want to get into the google payment system (they offer booking through others that I did not explore).

On the opposite side was Expedia children where they would show a price of 2800 and when you click the price invariably it has gone up to 3600. Again. And again. And again. Not sure if that problem existed with google although I paid the exact same price as the airline as shown by google, it could just be a coincidence.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#50

Google also isn't great at surfacing genuine product reviews that aren't just people reiterating amazon reviews with referral links and SEO. Like even stuff reviewed by reputable websites somehow loses out regularly. If I want someone's actual opinion and people I know don't have one, I have to check reddit or metafilter.

I used to add inurl:forum or inurl:thread to my searches to find actual opinions from people instead of ads disguised as articles. Now I just search reddit.
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