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Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

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Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#41

Post by raincom »

Kranar wrote: post #8

One of the interview questions I ask all UX Researchers is to open up rottentomatoes, sort recent films by rating and then look at the movies that have the lowest critic scores. Almost always you can see the audience score for those movies is much higher than the critic scores. I then ask why this is the case. The overwhelming majority of answers involve critics being out of touch with the audience, critics being per…

Actually, both statements boil down to the same with little modifications: (a) being out of touch with the audience is same as (b) the audience typically only going to see movies that they are likely to enjoy. (a) is broader than (b), can subsume (b).

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#42

Post by _v7gu »

dvh wrote: post #5
thenightcrawler wrote: post #3

I don't think critics should necessarily follow general audiences , anymore than you would want a food critic to rate mcdonalds.

But then again, there's a reviewbrah...

A reviewbrah mention on hn? My joy is immeasurable and my day is made.

Honestly, gaining trust of audiences is also part of a critic. Else you're just a loud contrarian/populist.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#43

Post by bufferoverflow »

Kranar wrote: post #8

One of the interview questions I ask all UX Researchers is to open up rottentomatoes, sort recent films by rating and then look at the movies that have the lowest critic scores. Almost always you can see the audience score for those movies is much higher than the critic scores. I then ask why this is the case. The overwhelming majority of answers involve critics being out of touch with the audience, critics being per…

If your narrative was true, we would always see critics scores lower than the audience (assuming statistically significant number of critics reviewing a given movie). But we see so many counterexamples with radically different ratings: Spy kids, Ad Astra, Noah, King Kong (2005), Babe, The Blair Witch Project, Chicken Run, and thousands of others.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#44

Post by nopenopenopeno »

Kranar wrote: post #8

One of the interview questions I ask all UX Researchers is to open up rottentomatoes, sort recent films by rating and then look at the movies that have the lowest critic scores. Almost always you can see the audience score for those movies is much higher than the critic scores. I then ask why this is the case. The overwhelming majority of answers involve critics being out of touch with the audience, critics being per…

I used to be a film critic for the largest newspaper in a pretty big US city. Movie critics absolutely do not watch every movie. Not even close.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#45

Post by dnissley »

joebob42 wrote: post #30
vmception wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and whats the explanation for the opposite? when critics scores are much higher than audience scores? I assume "out of touch" but almost any explanation I think of and ridicule could be seen as a strawman argument, so I'll wait for your response.

I could imagine the answer being: People went to see these movies not because they wanted to per se but because critics said they were amazing. And because they went mostly due to critical reviews, anyone who didn't like it was even more likely than normal to be like "wait I feel tricked this was bad" This might be a bit of a stretch, but it seems almost plausible.

Two more possibilities:

- A film may have been marketed as one particular type of movie via trailers (e.g. as a horror film) but was actually a different type of movie, often a subversion of the genre it was marketed as (e.g. ended up as social commentary). So audiences feel deceived and report that in their ratings.

- Similarly, there are movies that are "applause lights" where critics are obliged to give positive ratings due to the social significance of a film (e.g. made by a woman / featuring a woman in a lead role). But the movie might just not be that good, and audiences report this in their ratings.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#46

Post by vmception »

dnissley wrote: post #45
joebob42 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could imagine the answer being: People went to see these movies not because they wanted to per se but because critics said they were amazing. And because they went mostly due to critical reviews, anyone who didn't like it was even more likely than normal to be like "wait I feel tricked this was bad" This might be a bit of a stretch, but it seems almost plausible.

Two more possibilities: - A film may have been marketed as one particular type of movie via trailers (e.g. as a horror film) but was actually a different type of movie, often a subversion of the genre it was marketed as (e.g. ended up as social commentary). So audiences feel deceived and report that in their ratings. - Similarly, there are movies that are "applause lights" where critics are obliged to give positive r…

> social significance of a film (e.g. made by a woman / featuring a woman in a lead role)

for a less divisive example: movies about the film or theatre industry get high marks and fit your example while the audience is left scratching their heads

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#47

Post by KingOfCoders »

mikequinlan wrote: post #35
Kranar wrote: post #8

One of the interview questions I ask all UX Researchers is to open up rottentomatoes, sort recent films by rating and then look at the movies that have the lowest critic scores. Almost always you can see the audience score for those movies is much higher than the critic scores. I then ask why this is the case. The overwhelming majority of answers involve critics being out of touch with the audience, critics being per…

The article claims that the difference between audiences and critics has been increasing over the last two decades. If the difference was only because audiences self-selected while critics had to review everything, why would it be increasing over time?

No clue, one moonshot people live more in a bubble and narrow their film selection?

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#48

Post by handmodel »

logicalmonster wrote: post #24
Kranar wrote: post #8

One of the interview questions I ask all UX Researchers is to open up rottentomatoes, sort recent films by rating and then look at the movies that have the lowest critic scores. Almost always you can see the audience score for those movies is much higher than the critic scores. I then ask why this is the case. The overwhelming majority of answers involve critics being out of touch with the audience, critics being per…

> come to the correct conclusion, What makes you so sure that this is the correct interpretation? Both things could be true at the same time: there could be selection bias at the same time as critics are perhaps out of touch and snobby. You could backtest this theory: see if perhaps critics scores were at one time a bit closer to general audiences or not. I think you'd find that at one time good critics were a bit cl…

Looking at the mechanisms alone I think its pretty unlikely that film critics have not shifted over time.

The standard film critic job in the 80s/90s was a local newspaper. That meant your audience was men/women of various ages and political beliefs who happened to live in the same area. If you were a successful critic you had to write something that appealed to all of them. This was actually a vital service that people used to determine if a movie was good.

Now the typical movie critic is online and has an audience which probably has a singular viewpoint. This isn't bad - but makes it unlikely the critics with "everyman" sensibilities would do well. People who consume an above average amount of film reviews will have their views represented more.

Chuck Klosterman (who was once a local newspaper movie reviewer and now writes to a certain type of audience online) has written about this.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#49

Post by apeace »

logicalmonster wrote: post #17

I don't know if this tells the entire story, but I think these are 2 of the bigger issues at play. 1) The corporatization of social media is a big factor. There's big money involved in controlling reviews. Critics and influencers devoted to certain fandoms inevitably get influenced, pressured, infiltrated by studios who expect favorable treatment towards their product or that entity loses access, gets attacked, etc.…

One counter-example to your second point is Don't Look Up

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dont_look_up_2021

55% Tomatometer, 78% audience score

My take with this movie is that the opposite of your #2 happened. Lots of regular folks who are concerned with global warming rated the movie highly, because they care about the political message it sends. Critics saw it as a pretty mediocre movie even though the message might be good.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do think it can go both ways.

EDIT: I looked again, and I realized the "Critic Consensus" and "Audience Says" sections on that page actually match my theory. For whatever that's worth.

Critic Consensus: Don't Look Up aims too high for its scattershot barbs to consistently land, but Adam McKay's star-studded satire hits its target of collective denial square on.

Audience Says: Although it can be heavy-handed with its messaging, Don't Look Up tackles important subjects with humor and heart.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#50

Post by dragontamer »

Kranar wrote: post #8

One of the interview questions I ask all UX Researchers is to open up rottentomatoes, sort recent films by rating and then look at the movies that have the lowest critic scores. Almost always you can see the audience score for those movies is much higher than the critic scores. I then ask why this is the case. The overwhelming majority of answers involve critics being out of touch with the audience, critics being per…

> Those researchers are typically the ones I hire.

But there's no evidence that demonstrates either possibility (or if the reality is a 3rd, 4th or 5th possibility).

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