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Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

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41–50 of 56 posts

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#41
post #2

This looks cool as a learning experience and all, but... Self-hosting all your own stuff has to be the worst thing you can do as a new startup. You need to be focused on impactful work, not dealing with critical security updates to your Mattermost install. And definitely not worrying about figuring out how to properly HA databases and your self-hosted S3. Just use managed services.

The galaxy-brain plan is to start a SaaS for each thing, starting from the one with the fewest service dependencies to the one with the most, migrating earlier ones onto any services provided by later ones as possible/sensible, so by the end you are consuming a bunch of SaaS—but you own all of them.

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#42
post #41
post #2

This looks cool as a learning experience and all, but... Self-hosting all your own stuff has to be the worst thing you can do as a new startup. You need to be focused on impactful work, not dealing with critical security updates to your Mattermost install. And definitely not worrying about figuring out how to properly HA databases and your self-hosted S3. Just use managed services.

The galaxy-brain plan is to start a SaaS for each thing, starting from the one with the fewest service dependencies to the one with the most, migrating earlier ones onto any services provided by later ones as possible/sensible, so by the end you are consuming a bunch of SaaS—but you own all of them.

Lol that's all the big tech companies in a nutshell, except generally they built them for their own moneymakers and them made them a SaaS after

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#43
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish to but it's almost impossible: all services in this pack has a paas version that I never win, and a lot of people do the same things as devops engineers today, as I do as contractor and sometimes freelancer, for example))

But none of them have a system where all of these services are put together. What I would really like to see is an offering where anyone can just pick a suite of open source tools, all managed with the same SSO, and pay a flat rate for it. Something like https://restack.io , but not where I´d have to manage.

This is https://cloudron.io . Has sso across apps

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But none of them have a system where all of these services are put together. What I would really like to see is an offering where anyone can just pick a suite of open source tools, all managed with the same SSO, and pay a flat rate for it. Something like https://restack.io , but not where I´d have to manage.

This is https://cloudron.io . Has sso across apps

I'm aware of cloudron, but cloudron is a self-hosted solution.

I am talking about a fully-managed provider of services. Something for those that want to have a set of services for their startup but do not want to worry about keeping them up and running.

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is https://cloudron.io . Has sso across apps

I'm aware of cloudron, but cloudron is a self-hosted solution. I am talking about a fully-managed provider of services. Something for those that want to have a set of services for their startup but do not want to worry about keeping them up and running.

Ah gotcha. I think there was one a few days back estio or something, I forget

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#46
post #2

This looks cool as a learning experience and all, but... Self-hosting all your own stuff has to be the worst thing you can do as a new startup. You need to be focused on impactful work, not dealing with critical security updates to your Mattermost install. And definitely not worrying about figuring out how to properly HA databases and your self-hosted S3. Just use managed services.

If you need HA databases and something like s3. If you can just run docker compose and have it all running on a $1/mo vps, I am happy to pocket my extra profit thank you very much.

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#47
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Cant think of anything that is more of waste of time.

It works both ways. You can save your startup thousands of dollars per month on services, with very little effort -- if you know how. A larger group of people would struggle with the effort to do so competently. Energy spent bringing more people into the first group is generally a positive thing.

I think the first step is getting to a place where your infra even costs 1000s of dollars.

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#48
post #31
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor cost to maintain is far more than the service cost for a small startup, most of the time you can get by on the free tiers for quite some time. Founders need to focus time/energy on what adds value, not updating services.

This idea that you need a ton of money to maintain self hosted servers is not true. You may have to update to a new OS or software major version at some point in time, but in the meantime things can pretty much auto-security-update for the distribution provided version until you gain traction with your startup.

[deleted]

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#49
post #39
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor cost to maintain is far more than the service cost for a small startup, most of the time you can get by on the free tiers for quite some time. Founders need to focus time/energy on what adds value, not updating services.

> Labor cost to maintain is far more than the service cost for a small startup This is the common wisdom which is correct in many cases, but not all. If you have a decent systems/infrastructure person in your startup, the incremental cost of running a lot of these kinds of services is effectively zero. If you are bootstrapped, this can be financially significant. Most startups do not need a decent infra person on day…

Very real example coming up. I was one of 3 engineers with a "day one" start-up just over 2 years ago. I was dedicated to infrastructure, and have experience with hardware > OS > config management > orchestration > CICD > monitoring. I've deployed hashicorp stack and Kubernetes. I've managed in-house services like gitlab, database clusters, metrics/logs solutions, Jenkins etc. I've also managed firewalls and I'm rusty on switches etc but I've done that too.

At the start-up we ran nothing ourselves, except the gitlab runners. (Well, except for the first month where a bunch of laptops are used to prototype the app). I spent my first year writing terraform and helping design the product for low-cost scalability. So much of what we did for that whole year was in the free tier that our runway money could cover team building. 1 year in, I could deploy our entire stack from scratch into a new region in under an hour. VPC, subnets, security rules, IAM, queues, workers, Kubernetes cluster with autoscaling nodes, databases, DNS, CDN, monitoring, metrics, email (AWS SES)...

That type of fast deployability to a new region shouldn't be a late consideration after you've spent a year tinkering with in-house stuff. In fact, getting to another round of funding requires that you have that stuff ironed out. Can you support FedRAMP requirements? Yes, because that was a day one consideration. How about GDPR? Ditto. Do you have separate dev, test and prod environments which are identical apart from scale/cost? Yep!

Right now I'm working with a company that built everything in-house, from the perspective of "one single data center". It's a disaster. If you're not thinking at scale from the start, your probably not doing basic stuff like proper naming conventions, non-clashing CIDR. They're using all the right tools, but badly. Their terraform is a mess because it was obviously introduced it gradually on top of existing "snowflake" infrastructure. Their next data center was pretty much copy-paste followed by a thousand changes. And their code coverage is low - lots of stuff still manually created. (This is a known company with a decent product and lots of customers!). All of the people hired to try to make it scalable after the fact are saying things like "...it would be easier to just throw it all out and start over".

The problem with doing things badly because you think you can improve it later is that suddenly you've got customers on this thing, and you can't start over.

Re: Selfhosted tech starter pack for development of new project or startup

#50
post #26

From the second line in the README: > Warning: This setup doesn't provide high level of security or any high availability. You have to hire some skilled devops engineer (like me)) for close this gap after getting first round or sales. And this is exactly why managed SaaS is popular. Pulling a repo of a popular open source project and deploying it to your server seems trivial, and you wonder why there are idiots out t…

And if you have a person with those skills, they're still better off focusing all of their effort on building a repeatable, scalable stack that requires the least possible management.
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