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New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

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Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#41

Post by hetspookjee »

Retric wrote: post #33
Barrin92 wrote: post #5

This is almost too good to actually go through. Protocol transparency, that is to say forcing companies to open up their APIs would be one of the simplest and effective ways to break platform effects and walled gardens. It shouldn't just be limited to messaging. An internet where everyone can built a client against Facebook's API, or Youtube or what have you and users get actual choice and control about how they cons…

Beyond privacy concerns, it’s also going to open these and many other services up to an unending wave of SPAM. So, I wouldn’t assume it’s great for end users without digging into the details. Don’t forget the last time they did privacy regulations they created an unending wave of click yes to accept cookies. PS: Looking at rapid downvotes I see people disagree, but mandatory interoperability would presumably force th…

Luckily we’re kept totally safe by our benevolent overlords. Except for our good friend Jeff Bezos that got hacked through a WhatsApp image. Or the overt spam that any publicly posted business WhatsApp number receives.

WhatsApp replaced SMS as a free alternative with media. Sms is just a protocol. It is not necessary that a replacement is walled garden, especially not under the sole guise of spam protection - something that is being done very poorly anyway.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#42

Post by parkingrift »

grishka wrote: post #27
tluyben2 wrote: post #19

Just force monopolistic/abusive/anti-competitive companies to expose API's ; it's not a stretch; they did it for banks (psd2) and it's great for consumers and companies alike. Do it for everything; open systems make the world better. And they can still be monetized; it's not like forcing everyone to open source everything. Edit: more subtle choice of words to indicate what I meant

Most social media companies' businesses models rely on having complete control over the presentation of content. Forcing them to allow third-party client apps would ruin that, and it's going to be beautiful.

Complete control of the presentation of content, editorializing said content, and arbitrarily deciding what is and isn’t allowed. And they also still don’t want to be treated as publishers.

It’s hard for me to muster up even the smallest amount of sympathy for these vampires.

I expect this will take a decade to shake out as US tech firms work tirelessly to protect their spyware walled garden models.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#43

Post by Diggsey »

tluyben2 wrote: post #19

Just force monopolistic/abusive/anti-competitive companies to expose API's ; it's not a stretch; they did it for banks (psd2) and it's great for consumers and companies alike. Do it for everything; open systems make the world better. And they can still be monetized; it's not like forcing everyone to open source everything. Edit: more subtle choice of words to indicate what I meant

As someone who works on a SaaS product, one of our biggest costs is our stable API surface. Internal APIs are essentially free, but for a public API we have to:

- Implement a conversion layer from our internal representation so we can keep it stable.

- Complicate all further feature work because we have to consider how it will affect existing customers of the API.

- Write and maintain documentation for the API.

- Keep the API working even after we no longer use it.

- Maintain multiple versions of the API in parallel.

- Make sure our error messages make sense to people not familiar with our internal systems.

- Be more careful with validation - for our internal APIs it's not the end of the world if a bad request results in a 500 rather than a 400, but it matters a lot for public APIs.

- Be more careful with rate limiting and other defenses against API misuse.

And this is to name just a few. A requirement that everyone expose a public API is pointless if it doesn't include a stability guarantee, and overly burdensome if it does.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#44

Post by viccuad »

RenThraysk wrote: post #35
mfer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely not. Europe is in to open standards, interoperability, and things like this. Far more than the US.

Imagine there is a break in a cryptographic algorithm, say AES256-CBC. Now can I replace it in my messaging app, without having to coordinate with every other messaging app provider? Suddenly governments have a lever to prevent adoption of securer standards.

Why wouldn't you be able to bump the API of your messaging app? Sounds orthogonal to me. You are required to publish a working and open API. You are doing it. They can consume the new API with the new default cypher.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#45

Post by tinus_hn »

rewq4321 wrote: post #38
Retric wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond privacy concerns, it’s also going to open these and many other services up to an unending wave of SPAM. So, I wouldn’t assume it’s great for end users without digging into the details. Don’t forget the last time they did privacy regulations they created an unending wave of click yes to accept cookies. PS: Looking at rapid downvotes I see people disagree, but mandatory interoperability would presumably force th…

Why? If your messaging app doesn't have the ability to block stranger requests, why are you still using it? And even if you for some reason don't want to restrict your requests, you'll probably still be fine - Gmail handles protects me from spam pretty well.

Good luck blocking a person that pretends to be 10000 different strangers.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#46

Post by teekert »

This annoys me. Rather than robbing Moxie of his vision and forcing Meta to break their business model, why do governments not just lead by example?

Start using Matrix, we all know that the signup process could be easier (among many other things), throw some money and devs at the project with that specific goal. Start offering services over Matrix. Public money, public code. The whole world benefits.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#47

Post by dm319 »

sneak wrote: post #34
RenThraysk wrote: post #28

Is this an indirect attack on the encryption... seems to be.

iMessage and WhatsApp both already have encryption backdoors that escrow the endpoint secret keys or plaintext to cloud services, undermining the end-to-end encryption. That ship has sailed.

I wasn't aware of this, do you have a link for me to read more?

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#48

Post by [deleted] »

hetspookjee wrote: post #41
Retric wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond privacy concerns, it’s also going to open these and many other services up to an unending wave of SPAM. So, I wouldn’t assume it’s great for end users without digging into the details. Don’t forget the last time they did privacy regulations they created an unending wave of click yes to accept cookies. PS: Looking at rapid downvotes I see people disagree, but mandatory interoperability would presumably force th…

Luckily we’re kept totally safe by our benevolent overlords. Except for our good friend Jeff Bezos that got hacked through a WhatsApp image. Or the overt spam that any publicly posted business WhatsApp number receives. WhatsApp replaced SMS as a free alternative with media. Sms is just a protocol. It is not necessary that a replacement is walled garden, especially not under the sole guise of spam protection - somethi…

[deleted]

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#49

Post by elliekelly »

Retric wrote: post #33
Barrin92 wrote: post #5

This is almost too good to actually go through. Protocol transparency, that is to say forcing companies to open up their APIs would be one of the simplest and effective ways to break platform effects and walled gardens. It shouldn't just be limited to messaging. An internet where everyone can built a client against Facebook's API, or Youtube or what have you and users get actual choice and control about how they cons…

Beyond privacy concerns, it’s also going to open these and many other services up to an unending wave of SPAM. So, I wouldn’t assume it’s great for end users without digging into the details. Don’t forget the last time they did privacy regulations they created an unending wave of click yes to accept cookies. PS: Looking at rapid downvotes I see people disagree, but mandatory interoperability would presumably force th…

And this removes agency for those of us who try to keep as much of our data out of Google’s hands as possible. If they’re going to force interoperability it needs to come with restrictions about what they can collect about people who haven’t consented.

Re: New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other platforms

#50

Post by stingraycharles »

teekert wrote: post #46

This annoys me. Rather than robbing Moxie of his vision and forcing Meta to break their business model, why do governments not just lead by example? Start using Matrix, we all know that the signup process could be easier (among many other things), throw some money and devs at the project with that specific goal. Start offering services over Matrix. Public money, public code. The whole world benefits.

Why would requiring interoperability rob Moxie of his vision?
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