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Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

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Re: Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

#41

Post by lqet »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #11

This is Ouija board pseudoscience until proven otherwise. The scientist behind it is already disgraced. If there is any element of "assistance" in interpreting the locked-in patient's brain waves, the wishful thinking of the assistant likely fudges the results to create a fake message, exactly like an Ouija board. Scams like this pop up every few years, preying on desperate, sad people. See "facilitated communication…

I am not so sure, judging from the German press coverage, it seems that this study is regarded as vindication for Birbaumer and Chaudhary. The patient didn't just answer yes/no questions as in the original study, but produced whole sentences. Also, this isn't a situation where it is not even clear if the patient is brain-dead or not - the patient has ALS sind 2015, is in his early 30ies, and was communicating through his eye movement until this also stopped working just a few years ago. So he is most likely fully conscious.

Re: Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

#42

Post by samanator »

The linked addendum is critical context.

https://www.dfg.de/service/presse/pressemitteilungen/2019/pr...

The two researchers were investigated for lying in their papers. Selected translation of the linked article.

>The DFG investigative committee found false information in three cases. Accordingly, the two scientists, contrary to what they described in the 2017 study, only partially recorded the examinations of their patients on video. In addition, data from individual patients were only evaluated in summary form and not broken down. Overall, a depth of data was conveyed that de facto did not exist.

Re: Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

#43

Post by thaumasiotes »

zaarn wrote: post #36
thaumasiotes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a coma in the sense that's relevant here: > the patient, who was unable to move any muscles or even open his eyes

That is not a coma, the brain has remained functional and isn't shut down like in a coma. The patient has ALS not something that degrades brain functionality itself.

None of that is relevant in any way. The patient's behavior is the same; it attracts the same scam, because the scam is premised solely on the behavior of not talking. Nobody cares why the person isn't talking. Autistic patients attract this scam too.

Re: Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

#44

Post by eternityforest »

narcindin wrote: post #20
aero-glide2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the video! 2:27 shows the process. They go letter by letter in order and then ask yes or no. I think asking about the next letter based on previous letters would vastly improved the speed

Yes! Binary search through the alphabet. Or, better yet, Hoffman encode common German words!

Is binary search really the most practical? Can most people answer questions like "Is P after M" without a lot of thought and counting out all the letters one by one starting at one of the input letters?

A basic markov chain predictor seems like it could work, if you had a short enough window to be sure it couldn't invent its own nonsense.

Re: Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

#48

Post by Loughla »

its_bbq wrote: post #45
egberts1 wrote: post #39

This OP reminded me of a movie titled “Johnny Get Your Gun”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Got_His_Gun_(film)

It's a book too. Highly recommended, not for the squeamish.

That book will stick with you. It just will. If you suffer from an anxiety disorder, maybe skip this read.

Re: Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

#49

Post by fortran77 »

How do they get a locked-in patient to consent to the surgery?

It's interesting that the "audio" approached worked. There are people who believe that listening to sounds at various "brainwave frequencies" (alpha, beta, etc.) can cause your brain to enter the states associated with them. While intriguing, I thought it was probably nonsense. Well, maybe not....

Re: Completely Locked-In Patients Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant (BCI)

#50

Post by rmbyrro »

labrador wrote: post #46

My first words would be "kill me" but I wonder if that would be considered reliable legal communication

I guess this shows how such technological advances are relevant.

Even to enable the person to express their wish for euthanasia. I don't personally agree, but respect 100%.

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