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Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

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Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I have never said that he _only_ platforms experts that agree with him. I’m saying the skew is enormous. So (say) 99% of the relevant scientific and medical community realise ivermectin is bogus and the vaccines work. But he’ll invite on (say) a 75/25 split for/against ivermectin.

No post body was provided.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#43
While the ivermectin story is largely explained by the confounding factor of parasite presence in developing countries, it indirectly helped covid patients by curing them of other problems and thus reducing the potence of covid. Not so much in the developed countries since the parasite problem was small.

Concerning though, was the society's attitude to the Ivermectin, an safe drug prescribed by WHO in Africa en masse, established for decades, versus an experimental vaccine-like treatment with unknown side effects and never tested at scale that was to be deployed population wide.

At the time of no studies, no information and heavy panic, one of these was condemned, likened to a horse paste for conspiracy theorists, the other revered like a God's potion.

This attitude is perfectly rational for pharma companies, for which a vaccine is a better business model, with healthy 95% of the population being customers, than a drug with sick 5% being the customers. Especially for an is off-patent drug Ivermectin which is just a pain in the ass for pharma producers, with no monopoly markup on it.

The behavior is not rational for the general populace though. Once country's biggest villains, pharma companies injecting patients unknowingly with opiods, turning them into lifetime subscribers, to world's biggest saviors like a flip of a switch.

It was interesting to observe how the pandemic was progressing with a rational attitude as somebody who went through it and developed an immunity right at the beginning. It helped me understand how the minds can be overriden at scale using tactics of fear. Helps explain other dangerous ideologies that were pushed to the populations using fear.

Vaccines and Ivermectin are old news though. Who would have though that Vladimir Putin would become the world's most successful doctor and cure the world of the pandemic overnight.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#44

interesting, but largest ever? not according to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz4adJXLHgA which got very different results

That is a very low quality study because it a) employed self-selection instead of a proper RCT design and b) didn't control for anything. At least tracking pre-existing conditions would have been necessary, when not randomizing, for the results to have any meaning.

When studying the effects of invermectin, at least checking for worms in the patients' feces would have been needed.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying is a theory. It's a good theory but youre technically spouting misinformation by claiming it's hard fact. This theory was developed by Scott Alexander from SSC in his ivermectin blog post. Joe Rogan never claimed anyone should take medical advice from him. He had Sanjay Gupta and Robert Malone both medical doctors with differing opinions. This is how the media is supposed to work. It's not supposed…

Misinformation seems to be the boogeyman of our time. Something you don't agree with just slap the label "Misinformation!" "Yes, the evidence suggests it but.." - "MISINFORMATION.

Stating something with no scientific backing is literal misinformation.

Theres been not a single study to show parasite Covid ivermectin connection.

Claiming it's fact instead of a theory is literal misinformation, even if it's a good theory.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#46
post #36

The whole Ivermectin debacle was ridiculous. I never had Covid. Or if I did, it was so mild I never noticed. So, I really have no dog in this fight. But the way the media handled this coverage was really, really off-putting. First, if it doesn't work, just say that. "It doesn't work". "Ivermectin is not an effective treatment for Covid". That's all that was really necessary, right? But no, there was this whole ridicu…

When one side politicize drug, yes, the opponents will mock it. But also, there is version of Ivermectin for people and for horses. Those are two different things, dosages and buy at different places. Guess which one was originally talked about and taken.

> We give antibiotics to horses too.

Which are not the same for people and horses either.

---------

Maybe the ridiculous thing was to make Ivermectin into political calling card into first place. And in the second place, attacking doctors who say it is not tested or does not work. What about that, really.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#47
post #36

The whole Ivermectin debacle was ridiculous. I never had Covid. Or if I did, it was so mild I never noticed. So, I really have no dog in this fight. But the way the media handled this coverage was really, really off-putting. First, if it doesn't work, just say that. "It doesn't work". "Ivermectin is not an effective treatment for Covid". That's all that was really necessary, right? But no, there was this whole ridicu…

It was a story because people, for some stupid reason, started buying the horse version of the drug and horse owners couldn't get Ivermectin for their horses anymore: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/20/ivermectin-sho...

I haven't read any story that said: "It's a horsey drug for horses! If you take it, that means you're a horse!"

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#48
post #36

The whole Ivermectin debacle was ridiculous. I never had Covid. Or if I did, it was so mild I never noticed. So, I really have no dog in this fight. But the way the media handled this coverage was really, really off-putting. First, if it doesn't work, just say that. "It doesn't work". "Ivermectin is not an effective treatment for Covid". That's all that was really necessary, right? But no, there was this whole ridicu…

I think the main difference is that ivermectin is a potent medicine for parasites, and is commonly used to treat them, and in America parasites are more common in livestock and other animals than in humans. So, horse paste.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#49
Given that the activity of ivermectin was orthogonal to covid (virus vs parasite), they were looking for a side effect that would help. Pretty much every drug that was legally approved was tried when covid appeared to get something that might help. They could be immediately prescribed if something was found.

It’s a good comment re reducing the parasite load to improve health, but as others pointed out that’s not common in the countries initially hit by covid. Once politics and hearsay took over, logical discussion ended. For any viral infection, the recourse is vaccination, antivirals and reducing the symptoms. The rise of mAB meant that the effect of vaccination could be immediately applied, which was a new improvement for treatment. Vaccines and antivirals take time to develop, mAB require survivors and they’re all “foreign substances and/or proteins”. The woo and political folks don’t want that.

The world is very lucky covid was much closer to the flu than Ebola. Unless the “oh, sh*t” response would have broken through and kept people rational. And keep in mind that “a really strong immune system” often leads to a cytokine storm that burns out the lungs.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#50
post #35

We did not eliminate pandemics. Instead, as a Society we barely made it through this one. Despite the massive human and economic cost of this latest pandemic, governments are making the same mistakes again: - Lack of preparation. - Not enough resources allocated to research. - Too much reliance on Pharma and particularly Vaccine producing companies. The best research is still done mostly via foundations or private fu…

> - Lack of preparation.

> - Not enough resources allocated to research.

How do you prepare for something that you don't know is going to happen? How would you have prepared for a major coronavirus outbreak before covid, for example?

Some might even argue that it's precisely because of the research done in preparation for a new pandemic, which included studying novel coronaviruses using something that Fauci says was definitely not gain-of-function research, that we got this particular one in the first place :-)

> - Too much reliance on Pharma and particularly Vaccine producing companies.

Yeah, I think this is the mainstream scientific orthodoxy now. But then, it probably makes the most sense in terms of how we understand the human body works. What would you have done differently — reallocated the resources to study drug repurposing?

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