Alternative keyboard layouts are fascinating, but always raise a couple of questions for me and I wonder if anyone here can come up with actual experiences regarding the following topics: - I have been using standard german QWERTZ for about 42 years now, in average certainly not less than 3 hours every day. I was originally educated in proper 10 finger blind typing in a dedicated typing school as part of my typesette…
An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
41–50 of 147 posts
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#42CarpalX is a linear parametrized model with configurable parameters and weights for different types of strokes, so you can weigh the effort. You on the otherhand have made measurements of your hand movement. Very impressive and valuable! In the explainer [2] you mention the datasets briefly skipping over specifics:
- Are the hand-movement metrics a measurement of the center of the hand from an video-based object detector?
- Do you have individual finger detection too (doubt it is very precise due to occlusion)? My guess is relative hand movement is a good approximation of overall finger movement though.
- Any typing effort model based on this data will not be applicable to ortholinear or alternative layout boards such as a split hand (Ergodox, Corne, Moonlander or Plank).
- You briefly mention removing any manually determined effort-based objectives (like those in CarpalX) from the genetic algorithm optimization. You say they are highly similar to the purely trigram data-driven approach, but I am still very curious to see the results with these objectives included.
I am not trying to put you down though: It is still very commendable to research a better layout for the most common staggered 60% lay-out. I have been keylogging myself for three years now and will definitely try out your approach though, looks very promising!
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#43The problem with any non-QWERTY keyboard layout is that all app and web shortcuts go out the window. You want to save an image for the web? Good luck growing a third hand. Want to open the quick menu on a site using ⌘+/, but your / key is only accessible using the shift key? Tough luck. Need to change the font size in your editor? Just navigate down these 3 easy sub-menus, because the keyboard shortcut for that is al…
I'm typing on neo [0] and it's no problem at all.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#44Alternative keyboard layouts are fascinating, but always raise a couple of questions for me and I wonder if anyone here can come up with actual experiences regarding the following topics: - I have been using standard german QWERTZ for about 42 years now, in average certainly not less than 3 hours every day. I was originally educated in proper 10 finger blind typing in a dedicated typing school as part of my typesette…
The switch was not to hard and in the beginning I kept using my QWERTZ keyboard. After about a year I decided to stick with it and bought a QWERTY keyboard.
Having to switch back to the QWERTZ layout of coworkers is a little awkward but it's not too bad.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#45Alternative keyboard layouts are fascinating, but always raise a couple of questions for me and I wonder if anyone here can come up with actual experiences regarding the following topics: - I have been using standard german QWERTZ for about 42 years now, in average certainly not less than 3 hours every day. I was originally educated in proper 10 finger blind typing in a dedicated typing school as part of my typesette…
I still think it’s one of the best layouts; others bring up the home row but Dvorak had a lot of other factors at play too. If you’re interested, I highly recommend this 1972 article[0] on the layout, it’s quite a story.
One benefit of learning blind without ever using labels was that I can jump on any computer with a qwerty keyboard, switch to Dvorak, and just start typing. I have never ran into a computer that actively prevented me from switching keyboard layouts, and I even have a word processor that comes with Dvorak as an option. Bear in mind, I am still typing on a QWERTY keyboard, but if I type the letter Q, it outputs on the computer a comma.
Most modern games can detect alternate layouts and remap keys automatically, and for those that can’t it’s not difficult to remap them.
Back to the question of switching though. I went five years exclusively using Dvorak and not QWERTY, and for me that was fine. I will papers, I was programming, and I would simply just switch to Dvorak when I went on a computer that was not my own. The few times I did have to use QWERTY, I would just hunt and Peck. However, I ended up getting a job where they did a lot of deskside support for various clients, and of course I could not just change the keyboard layout on them. At some point, I realized, that I was able to switch my mindset when typing in qwerty, and suddenly I was just as proficient as I used to be in Corti then in Dvorak. You have to have kind of an active change in your brain similar to if you are speaking in a different language. If I’m on a qwerty keyboard I’m in “qwerty mode” and on Dvorak, default mode.
I must warn you, even after two weeks and 40 words per minute, I found Dvorak so comfortable I didn’t even care about my typing speed anymore and stopped doing typing drills. Consequently, while I am capable of using a qwerty keyboard for short periods of time, I find typing on one so uncomfortable that if given the opportunity I just switch to Dvorak. Obviously I would not do this on a client’s computer, but an Internet café is fair game.
I must also warn you that since Dvorak actively spreads the load across all fingers, your pinky may get sore when you first start only because those muscles aren’t used to being used. If you’re interested in reading my experience, I wrote about it in 2010[1].
[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20190125034817/http://infohost.n...
[1] https://aj.ianozi.com/2010/12/switched-keyboard-layouts.html...
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#46The symbol layers were copied from the Neo2 layout, which afaik were arranged manually.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#47Alternative keyboard layouts are fascinating, but always raise a couple of questions for me and I wonder if anyone here can come up with actual experiences regarding the following topics: - I have been using standard german QWERTZ for about 42 years now, in average certainly not less than 3 hours every day. I was originally educated in proper 10 finger blind typing in a dedicated typing school as part of my typesette…
1. For me it took about a year or so until I surpassed my QWERTY typing speed with certainty. I typed about 80-90 wpm on QWERTY and currently type at about 90-100 wpm on neo.
2. Yes, it's not a big issue. I rarely type QWERTY nowadays, but whenever I have to it clicks after a few minutes and I can type at maybe 70% the speed I typed at before. I'm certain were I to use it more, I would be able to type both at my "native" speeds. I also relearned all my emacs shortcuts pretty quickly. Using emacs is harder on QWERTY now, but fortunately I pretty much never have to do that now.
3. Due to 2, it's not really a problem. The actual problem is the other way round. You cannot easily give someone else access to your computer. It can be a bit annoying to change keyboard layouts each time someone else wants to quickly use your computer.
Hope that gives some perspective.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#48i rarely find myself in a situation where my typing speed on a regular layout is the limiting factor for input speed. When coding I don't type a lot and i'd likely get the same input speed on any reasonable layout after a while and when typing normal text i'm much more bound by how fast i can think about what i want to write. The only time i feel limited is when trying to transcribe while someone is talking but that'…
Improved comfort is the primary purpose.
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#49Alternative keyboard layouts are fascinating, but always raise a couple of questions for me and I wonder if anyone here can come up with actual experiences regarding the following topics: - I have been using standard german QWERTZ for about 42 years now, in average certainly not less than 3 hours every day. I was originally educated in proper 10 finger blind typing in a dedicated typing school as part of my typesette…
Re: An AI designed keyboard layout (2021)
#50The problem with any non-QWERTY keyboard layout is that all app and web shortcuts go out the window. You want to save an image for the web? Good luck growing a third hand. Want to open the quick menu on a site using ⌘+/, but your / key is only accessible using the shift key? Tough luck. Need to change the font size in your editor? Just navigate down these 3 easy sub-menus, because the keyboard shortcut for that is al…
Welcome to the wonderful world of everyone whose countries native layout doesn't have a dedicated key for /, like most of europe.