Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

H.264 is Magic (2016)

sidbala.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 229 posts

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#41

Post by joshspankit »

ksec wrote: post #33
userbinator wrote: post #20

H.264 patents are not expiring yet, if anyone was wondering. 2027 seems to be when that happens. On the other hand, I believe H.263 patents already expired, and MPEG-4 ASP (DivX etc.) is expiring this year.

I often wonder what we could do with a truly patent free codec once all the H.264 patent expired.

You don’t have to wonder: There have been many truly patent free codecs and the answer is mostly “Try to convince companies to adopt it even though they have a vested interest in using codecs they control”

For example: FLAC

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#42

Post by throw0101a »

ksec wrote: post #27
throw0101a wrote: post #3

See also H.265: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding And now even H.266: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Video_Coding Also, at what point will AV1 become "mainstream"? How prevalent is it? Still seems that hardware decoding (never mind encoding) support is still only so-so.

The Broadcasting industry has definitely sided with VVC. So 8K broadcast will likely be using VVC along with possibly LCEVC [1] as announced by the Brazilian SBTVD standard. The AV1 question is harder to answer. One could argue VP9 is good enough and a few more years before it reach 100% VP9 hardware decoding on Smartphone. Of course Google could force the usage of AV1 in the future if they slowly phaseout VP9 video…

> Even to this day I still do not believe Apple will support AV1 decode, at least not until Google forced the AV1 usage.

Even though they joined AOM four years ago:

* https://venturebeat.com/2018/01/04/3-reasons-apple-just-join...

* https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/01/04/apple-joins-allia...

* https://bitmovin.com/apple-joins-av1-codec-consortium/

* https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?Art...

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#43

Post by ksec »

dspillett wrote: post #39
ksec wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder what we could do with a truly patent free codec once all the H.264 patent expired.

Probably ask what we could do with H.269 (or whatever the common tech of the time is) when that is no longer encumbered by patents!

But being not encumbered by patents and patents free is two different thing.

We have lots of tools that didn't make it into H.264 standard due to complexity are also expiring.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#44

Post by antasvara »

tmp65535 wrote: post #35
high_priest wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bro. Why are you promoting so much an app that barely does anything (opens a series of images from a hosting), as 'pornographic application that change your life'?

This account exists ONLY to talk about that app. Every one of my projects is isolated from the others by using different accounts, etc. We should all be meticulous about compartmentalizing our online identity. This app uses an unusual image codec (BPG) which illustrates that if you control the encoder and decoder, you can choose a format with no mainstream support. I think it is a good point.

Do you run into issues being seen as a shill for your app?

I ask this in good faith, because I think a decent chunk of HN readers check a person's post history when they recommend something. I get the idea of compartmentalizing your online identity, but I imagine that comes at a cost in some instances.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#45

Post by ksec »

throw0101a wrote: post #42
ksec wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Broadcasting industry has definitely sided with VVC. So 8K broadcast will likely be using VVC along with possibly LCEVC [1] as announced by the Brazilian SBTVD standard. The AV1 question is harder to answer. One could argue VP9 is good enough and a few more years before it reach 100% VP9 hardware decoding on Smartphone. Of course Google could force the usage of AV1 in the future if they slowly phaseout VP9 video…

> Even to this day I still do not believe Apple will support AV1 decode, at least not until Google forced the AV1 usage. Even though they joined AOM four years ago: * https://venturebeat.com/2018/01/04/3-reasons-apple-just-join... * https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/01/04/apple-joins-allia... * https://bitmovin.com/apple-joins-av1-codec-consortium/ * https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?Art...

They were somehow a founding member of AOM 12 months after the announcement because someone "add" their "name" on the list and only found out by a CNET journalist. And four years later AOM still dont have permission to use the official Apple logo on that page. Compared to previous HEVC and VVC showing where Apple logo were officially presented.

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence to say the least.

The only recent changes were Apple's name somehow disappeared in both AccessAdvance and MPEGLA list.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#46

Post by latexr »

airstrike wrote: post #24

> "a technical walkthrough" > "Suppose you have some strange coin - you've tossed it 10 times, and every time it lands on heads. How would you describe this information to someone? You wouldn't say HHHHHHHHH. You would just say "10 tosses, all heads" - bam! You've just compressed some data! Easy. I saved you hours of mindfuck lectures." Ahh, my favorite kind of technical walkthrough. Love it

> You wouldn't say HHHHHHHHH.

You wouldn’t and shouldn’t. There are only nine “H” in there!

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#47

Post by tmp65535 »

antasvara wrote: post #44
tmp65535 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This account exists ONLY to talk about that app. Every one of my projects is isolated from the others by using different accounts, etc. We should all be meticulous about compartmentalizing our online identity. This app uses an unusual image codec (BPG) which illustrates that if you control the encoder and decoder, you can choose a format with no mainstream support. I think it is a good point.

Do you run into issues being seen as a shill for your app? I ask this in good faith, because I think a decent chunk of HN readers check a person's post history when they recommend something. I get the idea of compartmentalizing your online identity, but I imagine that comes at a cost in some instances.

Sure. But the benefits of privacy and compartmentalization outweigh the costs.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#48

Post by torginus »

tmp65535 wrote: post #10

Fabrice Bellard's BPG image format uses H.265's keyframe compressor: https://bellard.org/bpg/ Here is a side-by-side visual comparison: http://xooyoozoo.github.io/yolo-octo-bugfixes/#ballet-exerci... Amazing. I ported his BPG decoder to Android ARM for a pornographic app. See my comment history for details. It reduced data transfer by more than 60%.

What's the patent status? As far as I know, H265 is patent encumbered(and not actually supported on a large chunk of Android devices for the same reason) , so including this somewhere might invite legal trouble.

Re: H.264 is Magic (2016)

#50

Post by matja »

jstanley wrote: post #21

Does anything interesting happen if you take the frequency domain representation of an image, represent the frequency domain as an image itself, and compress that with some sort of image compression? For example, encode the frequency domain representation as a low quality JPEG, and then undo the steps to turn it back into the "original". How do the JPEG artifacts on the frequency domain manifest in the resulting imag…

You can try with Imagemagick (https://legacy.imagemagick.org/Usage/fourier/#im_fft) :

    for quality in 50 75 90 95 99 ; do
      # FFT
      convert source.png -fft +depth +adjoin source_fft_%d.png
      
      # compress FFT magnitude and phase
      convert source_fft_0.png -quality $quality source_fft_magnitude.jpg
      convert source_fft_1.png -quality $quality     source_fft_phase.jpg
    
      # IFFT
      convert source_fft_magnitude.jpg source_fft_phase.jpg -ift out.$quality.png
    done
Post reply on HN