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We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

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Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#41

Post by simonbarker87 »

omegalulw wrote: post #36
simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

Your argument is essentially that just because you don't need/like Uber doesn't mean it's useful? The problem Uber is addressing is not just a US problem - with Uber you essentially don't have to deal with all the shit taxi drivers pull, like refusing rides if they have to go to a slightly less profitable area, overcharging for rides for people new to the area/tourists, etc. Not to mention that with Uber you know exa…

Friends complain all the time that Ubers don’t show up, take forever to arrive and don’t allow you to plan ahead. I’ve literally never bad that problem with taxis. I can book ahead, they arrive on time, they take me where I need to go, charge a predictable price and if I’m in a town or city I can just walked to the nearest taxi tank and find dozens of taxis waiting to take me somewhere. Yes this is anecdotal but I just don’t see the problem Uber is solving in the UK

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#42

Post by cuteboy19 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #25

One of the most interesting insights to me about this dynamic of profitless, innovation lacking platforms came from reading a Varoufakis piece. To him the reason platforms exist as they do right now is because they constitute a fundamental shift away from market capitalism to what he calls techo-feudalism. Instead of thinking of companies like Uber as selling software and paying wage labour to generate profit, it mak…

The 3rd paragraph is incongruous with the 4th paragraph. If they are not generating profits then how come we accuse them of extracting rent and "maintaining techno-peasants"?

The major characteristic of feudalism was that power centers deteriorated and power was distributed to local lords insted of central kings. So how is having a single gigantic company more like feudalism?

Lastly, why come up with such convoluted theory when "too much speculation due to cheap debt" explains everything with much less gymnastics

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#43

Post by bfung »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

While I don't disagree with the article, I don't fully agree with it either.

The article cites a study on (USA) GDP as a metric measuring of productivity, however, GDP is a poor proxy measure of "things being produced". USA GDP includes financial services and consumer spending, so using debt to pay for things vs. producing more, can still boost GDP.

In the United States, pre-Uber around 2010, it was very hard to find cabs in certain cities and even neighborhoods in those cities. New York City had no problems, but as I had lived in Chicago and San Francisco with lower population densities compared to top tier cities in the world -- the only way to get cabs even a few miles outside the main downtown area, was to call taxi dispatch, if you knew their number -- it was even hard to look it up online -- and schedule a pick up, which usually took 30min+. The US taxi system was stalled at the time, and Uber forced it to start adapting to the smart phone era. The tragedy is that the people investing in and also running uber had their own pyramid scheme instead of pricing out the business correctly. They also didn't consider the social/gov implications -- places with good taxi systems didn't need them, as you alluded to with the UK, but they shoved into it anyways.

So Uber was an innovation, one that is trying to find its financial balance still. I'd never care to schedule another taxi pick-up for next morning, 16hrs in advance when I want to go to the airport.

But the article saying that uber innovation and having others try it on other industries is stymying productivity isn't completely correct either.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#44

Post by adreamingsoul »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

When we had Uber in Oslo, they were safer than taking a taxi.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#45

Post by simonbarker87 »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #39
simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

I was born and live in the UK and will only take a non-Uber taxi as a last resort. Been ripped off one too many times by taxi drivers in my life. With Uber there is no opportunity to be ripped off. The fact that I can often use Uber abroad is a massive bonus. It's almost a guarantee that you're going to be ripped off when using taxis in a foreign country.

I would only take an Uber as a last resort - even the few occasions I’ve used one it was flaky. I’ve tried another few times but there was never a driver near but and the one who accepted just didn’t show up, carrier on driving around doing their own thing.

If something was critical I would never use an Uber - I’d rather walk, or cycle if a traditional taxi wasn’t possible for some reason.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#46

Post by simonbarker87 »

adreamingsoul wrote: post #44
simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

When we had Uber in Oslo, they were safer than taking a taxi.

Safer in what way? A real way or a manufactured way created by Uber to scare you away from traditional taxis?

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#47

Post by whitepaint »

hughrr wrote: post #10

It’s also killing customer confidence by providing the shittiest low ball unreliable service possible.

There is a button, you click on it, a few minutes later someone comes to pick you up. Like seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#48

Post by sokoloff »

servytor wrote: post #32

I just find it really weird that there wasn't a thinktank in 2005 or so, that said "Okay, what are the next big phone applications?" and invented Uber and a few others. What is the point of these thinktanks if they can't predict 3 years ahead along our current technological advancement curve?

Did 2005 think tanks even predict the iPhone?

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#49

Post by mike-cardwell »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #45
mike-cardwell wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born and live in the UK and will only take a non-Uber taxi as a last resort. Been ripped off one too many times by taxi drivers in my life. With Uber there is no opportunity to be ripped off. The fact that I can often use Uber abroad is a massive bonus. It's almost a guarantee that you're going to be ripped off when using taxis in a foreign country.

I would only take an Uber as a last resort - even the few occasions I’ve used one it was flaky. I’ve tried another few times but there was never a driver near but and the one who accepted just didn’t show up, carrier on driving around doing their own thing. If something was critical I would never use an Uber - I’d rather walk, or cycle if a traditional taxi wasn’t possible for some reason.

If that was a common experience, Uber wouldn't have grown to the size it has and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't doubt that you have had bad experiences with Uber, and also that other people have. But you would find it very hard to convince me that people have better experiences with non Uber taxis on average.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#50

Post by mftb »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #35
mftb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're sample is simply not representative. If we could go back in time to 5 years before Uber's founding, I could show you the taxi system on the entire west coast of the US was non-functional, from San Diego to Seattle, service, pricing, availability were all abysmal. FWIW, I actually agree that the "Gig Economy" is riddled with problems, but at least in the case of Taxi's where Uber started, the existing system wa…

Sure, but like I said - solving a problem in the US and then rolling it out across the globe just “because” doesn’t mean the rest of the world needed it, just mean you had enough money to outcompete even if your service is worse.

It would seem that many other folks in this thread disagree that Uber's service in the area you referenced is worse. I've never been to the UK, so I can't offer an opinion.
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