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Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

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Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#41
>In a recent post, Parrhesia suggested that course grades should be 100% determined by performance on a final exam—an exam that could be taken repeatedly, with the last attempt being the course grade

>[...]I suspect this proposal hasn’t seen much contact with people who’ve actually taught classes

This is how a fair number of classes at my university are graded. Particularly math classes are structured so that you could literally ignore the class for 3 months and then just show up and take the exam and that decides 100% of the grade. Some homework is available for bonus points, but it only contributes to going from a failing grade to passing. While retaking the exam to get a higher grade isn't technically part of the system they will let you do it if there is space.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#42
I spent my 20ss trying to become a professor and teaching undergrads. The article resonates loudly with me.

One of the best thing about nope-ing out of that lifestyle has been this:

I still teach people.

I teach people almost every day and this is incredibly validating.

I teach people almost every day and this is incredibly validating and they find this useful.

I teach new things to musicians I play with. I mentor my coworkers when they are working with new things. I help my friends and partners learn new things. The best is that I know how to research ideas and commit to learning them myself.

Much of formal education has systematic problems that make it struggle to achieve its stated goals.

But "teaching" as a form of human interaction is a wonderful thing.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#43

I've often thought the same thing about becoming an adult, especially a parent, in general. There are so many choices that I harshly judged older people for making (how to allocate their time and money, where to live, what to allow or not allow the kids to do, how to behave at work, etc.) that I now find myself making as a married guy in my mid-30s with four kids. It makes me sad, but on each point I'm like, "Oh, now…

What’s wrong with doing the things that your more mature, logical self actually wants instead of what your younger, uninformed self thought you’d want?

There’s nothing stopping you from eating ice cream for breakfast, spending all of your money on Lamborghinis, and playing video games all day. As an adult you realize that those things won’t actually bring you true happiness and those decisions will cause significant negative consequences in the future that you’d rather avoid.

I don’t see what’s sad about that, other than maybe the disappointment of losing naiveté.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#44

I've often thought the same thing about becoming an adult, especially a parent, in general. There are so many choices that I harshly judged older people for making (how to allocate their time and money, where to live, what to allow or not allow the kids to do, how to behave at work, etc.) that I now find myself making as a married guy in my mid-30s with four kids. It makes me sad, but on each point I'm like, "Oh, now…

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years."

Always loved that quote.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way. Parents can also get worse as you age and learn that some actions or behaviors are inexcusable. But as a younger person you either didn't understand the context or thought it was okay.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#45
post #19
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a TA, I convinced my professor to stop giving graded assignments. it was obvious on tests who had done the assignments and who hadn't.

After just starting a grad program after 12 years in industry. I'd have to disagree. While a large fraction of homework is busy work designed to give the illusion of challenge and rigor - tests simply estimate whether someone has memorized the material sufficiently for a short 1 hour exam. In CS, a ~4-20 hour project is vastly more representative of how well someone understands the material and could apply it in a re…

I get what you're saying but I also disagree with it as a generalization, and say it would depend on the subject. For theoretical subjects, an exam is about the only way to test your understanding. Memorization is not going to help you solve math problems.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#46

>In a recent post, Parrhesia suggested that course grades should be 100% determined by performance on a final exam—an exam that could be taken repeatedly, with the last attempt being the course grade >[...]I suspect this proposal hasn’t seen much contact with people who’ve actually taught classes This is how a fair number of classes at my university are graded. Particularly math classes are structured so that you cou…

They let you retake the exam? Like... the same exam? Or re-do at a later term?

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#47
post #25
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good! Students should be failing out of they're unwilling to work hard

You could call it unwilling to work hard. Or it could be difficulty prioritizing work, or ADHD, or disorganization. Are those traits what we’re testing for, or are we testing for knowledge of the subject?

As an advisor of PhD students I've learned that both things are important in different amounts. Much of what our education system measures right now is "willingness to work really hard from a young age." When I meet students from top-tier institutions I see a lot of this: it's really impressive. I also see a good deal of of selection for what I'd consider raw problem-solving ability. I see a smaller degree of selection for raw creativity.

The most creative students I've met have been the ones that didn't accumulate credentials, and often suffered because of (possibly undiagnosed) ADHD. They did well when they found their passion, either because they found it later in life or because they really, really cared about it. Our system doesn't do as well with these people, but they can usually make their way through.

Unfortunately there's a downside to this: all the creativity in the world isn't going to help you if you can't execute. A brilliant idea only takes you so far. And gaining sufficient background to have brilliant ideas is often an even more demanding task, which passion alone doesn't suffice for. I don't exactly know what to do about all this. What I do know is that a system that bases future success on how well individuals do at age 16 is fundamentally, profoundly stupid... And I wish I had a better one.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#48
post #2

This is TERRIFYINGLY accurate. """ Here’s what will happen: Like most other humans, your students will be lazy and fallible. So many of them will procrastinate and not do the homework. So they won’t learn anything. So they will get a terrible grade on the final. And then they will blame you for not forcing them to do the homework """ This is almost exactly how adjunct teaching went for me. It was not the experience I…

There is a breed of very narcissistic person in our culture that will always find a way to blame their inadequacies and their mistakes on those around them. In high school, if you are a teacher you have quite a lot of authority in the classroom and so even if your student is oriented in this way, they will just 'not like that teacher'. Helicopter and apologist parents are increasingly an issue but they aren't directly in the classroom.

In college however, students are grappling with their own burgeoning adulthood. They realize a TA is just another student with a few years on them. While the professor might be a bit out of reach, for a narcissistic person, it is easy to justify to themselves that they are actually above the TA in status/rank/morality/righteousness/sociability. Subsequently they can beat down the TA in the way that you mentioned. "All my problems are the result of your failures to address them". "I would have done better but the TA didn't like me." "Oh I hated that class the TA was a total nerd." "No one ever told me I had to do the assignments, I didn't realize I would be tested on this."

It doesn't help that people who choose to become a TA are often a 'helpful' kind of person, the exact kind of person that tends to be a little bit susceptible to these kinds of criticisms, even if they are untrue. The only way to move forward as a TA (and as a person) in this environment is to harden yourself in the ways that the article and many other commenters mention. That's my 2c anyhow.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#49
post #16

For the most part I actually had wonderful teachers during my school career. What I bitterly disagreed with was a lot of the curriculum, and I knew they didn’t have a say in that. So my question to educators here would be: Do you ever feel like you’re forced to teach topics you know won’t benefit students?

I feel that I have requirements that don't benefit students much or at all, but I just don't spend much or any time on them. At the end of my courses, I administer a test graded by me, so I can just not fail anyone. I know on day 2 if someone needs to be failed, when they do their first practical exercise. I'll probably have them removed from the course so as to not waste everyone's time, if that happens (but it almost never does.) I also have a very specific curriculum that is meant to be followed, but it's mostly not very good or focuses on things that are no longer major focus areas, because the development process lags so far behind reality. Again, I just do whatever I want, especially for practical exercises.

On the other hand, I teach another course that couldn't be more different. On the first day I give students every question to all the tests and tell them to start studying. If they can answer every question, they know plenty. I almost always give the same test, so different cohorts could (and, I'm quite confident, do) cheat by tracking which questions will be asked. I warn them against this, but ultimately I don't care because the final exam is not generated or graded by me, so it will be their predictable downfall if they go down the road of cheating.

You could reasonably say I neglect the second course; I do, for good reasons that mostly have to do with what I said about the first set of courses. I also the systems that provide education and training to my students relating to both courses, which further justifies my allocation of attention.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#50

This problem isn't a teaching problem. Evaluating someone's skills in any respect or context is basically an intractable problem. Interviewing, school, job performance, etc. etc. If there were an organization that could "perfectly" evaluate people's skills in a fixed period of time it would quickly become the top, and eventually only company. It would use its own skills in order to remove low performers, perfectly fr…

The first thing to understand is that the goal in teaching is not to evaluate anyone's skills . The goal in teaching is to make sure that students learn things. From a teacher's perspective, the evaluation part is entirely a hack to make sure that they do.

I don't think it's true that in all contexts the role of a teacher is exclusively to teach. "Teachers" are also part of a credentialing system used in our society to identify people who are skilled or talented. This is discussed in the article when the author talks about the diffuse harms inflicted by cheaters.
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