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Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

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Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#41

I remember reading in the UK government's security assessment of Huawei that one of the issues is not necessarily data being sent to bad places or backdoors in the software, it's that the engineering processes behind these devices/software are completely unable to protect against any sort of supply chain attacks. The sorts of things they highlighted were: no version control, no code review, production builds happenin…

Also a perfect environment to slip in back doors that look like mistakes.

With enough mistakes, why would anyone bother to install a back door? That costs money, and reduces deniability.

Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#42

From the comments Nothing in your analysis shows this. Moreover unless you explicitly deployed a root certificate on your clients (or if an app on the client did it), the router can't decode TLS traffic (deep inspection) without you getting certificate warnings on the client. In that case, the only thing the router can see is the dns request, the IP and the TLS SNI. In short your title is misleading. permalinkembedsa…

... and I don't get your point in this useless pedantry? Sure that the data in of itself is not sent, but you seemed to imply that DNS queries don't reveal anything. In practice, you can build a good enough picture to decode what's their interests, what type of places they visit etc., which is worrying of itself. It's like saying to not worry because they didn't know you ordered a Big Mac while the fact that you went to McDonald's is being known is already creepy to a lot of people.

Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#43

The software answer would be easy: use OpenWRT or any other *BSD based alternative, but what about the hardware? A quick search for WAN interfaces for PCs returned nothing.

Netgear DM200 or one of the Fritz!Box devices if you want VDSL/DSL support.

Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#44
ALL routers send my web traffic to 3rd party server I would hope. I don't have a router to access all the websites on my home network after all.

Joking ofc, this is pretty bad. Terrible coding in the best case, outright spying in the worst. Neither instills a lot of confidence in TP-link.

Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#45
post #33

I remember reading in the UK government's security assessment of Huawei that one of the issues is not necessarily data being sent to bad places or backdoors in the software, it's that the engineering processes behind these devices/software are completely unable to protect against any sort of supply chain attacks. The sorts of things they highlighted were: no version control, no code review, production builds happenin…

A perfect situation for Hanlon's razor... Is this stuff not par for the course? Everything hardware/embedded in my experience is like a decade or two behind the current norms for c/c++ programming. What I never understood from that audit, was this code quality unusual? I didn't get the sense they audit European and American companies - so sure they looked at the source and said "lol your code sucks" but there was no…

> A perfect situation for Hanlon's razor...

I'm not at all suggesting that Huawei (or TP-Link, or anyone else) are actively attempting to subvert security systems or intentionally adding backdoors. In that sense it's probably right to conclude this is ignorance.

The problem is that an attacker, especially those with the backing of a nation state, can trivially attack those insecure supply chains and install backdoors or data exfiltration.

As for whether others are as bad, I think the sort of audit that was done on Huawei is done for other companies attempting to sell into that level. These audits are not really about looking at the code – sometimes they do, but you're never going to get a useful security audit of 10s-100s of millions of lines of code. They're more about the security posture of these companies, and in that way, Huawei failed.

I do expect that Cisco, HP, other network hardware vendors are better at this. Do they still have crap code? Sure. Do they still have security vulnerabilities? Of course. Could a nation state still get a backdoor in? Probably. But would it be significantly harder to do, easier to detect, and easier to resolve? Yes, and that makes them better suited to critical infrastructure.

Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#47
This is why for home and small office use, I usually get AVM Fritz [1] network devices. They have been around for since forever, provide regular updates for their devices and over a long period. Their web interface allows for a lot of fine-grained configuration and their devices have been rock solid for me. They are a German company and as far as I know software development is also done in Germany, so I expect that they operate within the relatively strict privacy regulations of the EU.

[1] https://en.avm.de

Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#49
post #6

TP Link is a Chinese company. I won't trust them personally. In China's current political status, it is impossible for Chinese companies to reject the autocratic government's requests for surveillance. You may endup in jail or even get killed.

I mean, I get it, but Avira is a German company.

Re: Newer TP-Link Routers send large volumes of requests to Avira servers

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also buy an SBC with a few network ports and use that as your router.

IME small ARM SBCs generally have a miserably slow bus arrangement for this sort of thing (and no hardware switch chip, of course). People have had some success with routers built on x86 mini-PCs[1], but these lean towards the “flexible and performant” side, not the cheap side. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/the-ars-guide-to-bui...

I was just wondering about this the other day. Are there still no options other than to buy/build a grossly overpowered x86 machine?
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