Live data from Hacker News

YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

tampafp.com

41–50 of 872 posts

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#41

One of the hosts wrote this about it [1]: particularly appropriate quote: > What casual observers might not understand, however, is just how far the policy goes. Not only does YouTube punish channels that spread misinformation, but in many cases, it also punishes channels that report on the spread of misinformation. The platform makes no distinction between the speaker and the content creator. If a channel produces a…

This is what people don't get about these policies; they think that it's a debate between people who believe Trump's lie and people who don't believe Trump's lie. And sure, there are people in full force coming out here to argue that the election was stolen, but it's not just about whether or not those people get to speak. Inevitably, these policies always end up clamping down on people who talk about misinformation, because at the scale of Youtube, moderation can't really figure out context.

This happens all over the place; policies around abuse end up getting applied to people that report that they are being abused, policies around misinformation get applied to people who report that misinformation is happening. It's kind of big news that Trump is still pushing this narrative in 2022. It actually is entirely legitimate to report that he's still saying this, he's likely to be the Republican candidate in 2024, people should know that he hasn't stopped making this claim.

There's a debate about disinformation censorship that's all about whether or not censorship is the right way to stop people from telling these lies, but even before we get to that debate, regardless of whether or not someone believes that censorship actually helps prevent the spread of misinformation -- the reality is that platforms like Youtube/Twitter are too big to effectively apply many of these rules, and often they end up affecting the opposite of their intended targets.

We have these high-level conversations about whether or not censorship on broad platforms that are nevertheless private is appropriate, and there's some value in having those conversations. But how often do we step back and ask, "are the platforms even capable of pulling off the censorship that they claim in the first place? Is Youtube even capable of censoring election misinformation without also censoring a bunch of other stuff that they didn't intend to?"

A conversation about censorship on tech platforms that doesn't take into account how clumsy these filters are in practice isn't really an accurate reflection of the reality. We have debates about whether or not private censorship on a broad scale is a good idea, but it's not even clear that any of these tech platforms are capable of doing censorship in a targeted way for any context-dependent topic.

It reminds me of how we used to have a bunch of conversations about the morality of self-driving cars making moral choices during accidents, but you zoom out and realize that even those debates are just incredibly optimistic, and in reality the cars just crash into guardrails because their sensors aren't good enough. We should not go into these conversations assuming that accurately targeted censorship of the kind that Youtube proposes even is possible at the global scale Youtube wants to operate on, we have a lot of data showing that large platforms aren't really capable of moderating with the same degree of precision as smaller platforms.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#42
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Only Republicans lie about elections — when we do it, it’s “fortifying” and “election integrity”. Bingo, it will be couched in those terms as well as "voting rights". To them, if you aren't picked up and given a free ride by an Uber to a polling place, then fed and given free water while waiting in line, then given a free ride back to your house, the election is being interf- I mean, "voting rights" are being tramp…

> then fed and given free water while waiting in line

Is this a complaint that people are opposed to the GA law that doesn’t allow people to hand out water to voters in line?

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/verify/yes-its-illegal-to...

If so, can you provide any compelling reason why that should be illegal?

If someone has to stand in line for hours to vote, you’re damn right that people should be allowed to receive water.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#43

Quoted post unavailable.

I don’t think the content of that video, or mearsheimer, are Russian propaganda. But I can believe that the title alone might’ve inspired some inorganic pushing by Russian shill accounts. After all, it’s a long video, most people probably click away within 30 seconds.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#45
post #38
post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't recall the Women's March on DC storming the capitol in an effort to prevent ratification, but sure, if you define 'messed with' broadly enough, you will be 'technically correct'. In much the same way as dying of starvation can be technically described as 'missing a couple of meals'. The difference between the two sides is that one believes that the system works, but is unfair, and the other one believes nothi…

I mean the anti Vietnam war movement blew up a bomb in the Senate mail room in the Capitol on two separate occasions (and got a pardon from Bill Clinton 30 years later). Is storming worse than bombing?

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#46
post #10
post #2

This is inexcusable. Just cancelled my YouTube premium subscription. All they did was play a clip from CPAC. I wish nothing but the worst for Google.

Over the past year I've switched from Google search to DDG; Google Maps to Apple Maps; Chromecast to Apple TV+; and Drive to Dropbox. I've held off on switching away from Gmail, but I'm switching to something else tonight. Suggestions welcome. By the way, not that I would support this at all (since I believe in free speech), but any idea if any speeches from Putin or Xi, or official government accounts from either co…

> I'm guessing not likely, given that they've really done nothing about ISIS accounts in the past

This is inaccurate. The precedent for removing extremist content was set in the late 2000s when Facebook, Google, and Twitter started massive campaigns to investigate, report and remove Islamic extremist content on their platforms. A lot of legitimate non-extremist Islamic content and users got caught up in the censorship. I didn't hear anything about it from free speech absolutists, though.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#47
post #3

Right on. If you are dumb enough to censor, you can only censor content and the frame you are looking through doesn't make any difference. Imagine in a totalitarian regime, you would like to inform people on system critical thoughts others have been executed for, so people can avoid them.

I can imagine a regime like this having enough people who simply enjoy the killing.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#48
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Only Republicans lie about elections — when we do it, it’s “fortifying” and “election integrity”. Bingo, it will be couched in those terms as well as "voting rights". To them, if you aren't picked up and given a free ride by an Uber to a polling place, then fed and given free water while waiting in line, then given a free ride back to your house, the election is being interf- I mean, "voting rights" are being tramp…

When I was a student in Atlanta - no car, miserable public transit, before Uber and Lyft - my polling place was a small government office in a suburb halfway across the county, which is a narrow strip from one edge of the ATL metropolitan area to the other, neatly bisecting the most densely populated parts of the city. It took me nearly three hours to get out there from campus in the middle of midtown, I waited in line for another hour, they took another half-hour to find my registration, and it took me four hours to get back to my dorm. I had to skip several lectures and I'm lucky that none of my professors scheduled actual exams that day.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#49

Quoted post unavailable.

John Joseph Mearsheimer (/ˈmɪərʃaɪmər/; born December 14, 1947) is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He has been described as the most influential realist of his generation.[3]

...

Mearsheimer's books include Conventional Deterrence (1983), which won the Edgar S. Furniss Jr. Book Award; Nuclear Deterrence: Ethics and Strategy (co-editor, 1985); Liddell Hart and the Weight of History (1988); The Tragedy of Great Power Politics (2001), which won the Lepgold Book Prize; The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy (2007); and Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying in International Politics (2011). His articles have appeared in academic journals like International Security and popular magazines like the London Review of Books. He has written op-ed pieces for The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and the Chicago Tribune.[9]

Mearsheimer has won several teaching awards. He received the Clark Award for Distinguished Teaching when he was a graduate student at Cornell in 1977, and he won the Quantrell Award for Excellence in Undergraduate Teaching at the University of Chicago in 1985. In addition, he was selected as a Phi Beta Kappa Visiting Scholar for the 1993–1994 academic year. In that capacity, he gave a series of talks at eight colleges and universities. In 2003, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.[9] He is the recipient of the American Political Science Association's 2020 James Madison Award, which is presented every three years to an American political scientist who has made distinguished scholarly contributions. The Award Committee noted that Mearsheimer is "one of the most cited International Relations scholars in the discipline, but his works are read well beyond the academy as well."[10]

Mearsheimer's works are widely read and debated by 21st-century students of international relations. A 2017 survey of US international relations faculty ranks him third among "scholars whose work has had the greatest influence on the field of IR in the past 20 years."[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer

I very much do not agree with Mearsheimer's point of view, but describing his lectures as "Russian propaganda" suggests that you are the one in the grip of an extreme form of propaganda. Rethink where you're getting your information.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#50

I’m becoming more convinced that the future I’ve been planning simply won’t be possible in the decades to come. The world is scarcely recognizable. And having experienced nothing but peace and prosperity makes me feel woefully unprepared. The WEIRD world is becoming increasingly more authoritarian. I’m already detached from real conflict and scarcity, knowing nothing but peace and prosperity, and the TikTok generatio…

Meming about and being afraid of WW3 is critical in containing/deescalating it. WW1 happened partly because nobody was afraid of it happenning.

Not when the meming calls for escalation by sending weapons to Ukraine and imposing sanctions.
Post reply on HN