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Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#41

Post by lolinder »

jmeister wrote: post #36
zuminator wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the article fake news when it agrees with (is literally the source for) your main point?

It managed to mislead the purportedly wise readership of this forum. Fake news doesn’t mean literally everything in the article is fake. It’s a metaphor

"Have I ever lied to you?"

Silverfish's brow furrowed. "Well," he said, "yesterday you said—"

"I mean metaphorically," said Dibbler quickly.

"Oh. Well. Metaphorically? I suppose not—"

"There you are, then."

— Terry Pratchett

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#42

Post by dev_by_day »

electrondood wrote: post #32
akomtu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the blue camp is different only in rhetoric: if the red wants control in the name of national security, the blue wants the same control in the name of grotesque moral rightnessess. Fake news is a good summary of our media today, it just applies to both camps.

Bullshit false equivalence. I notice that Democrats aren't forming white supremacist militias, plotting to kidnap state governors, attacking Congress specifically to overturn the results of a national election, etc.

Democrats have plenty of blood on their hands in demanding censorship.

Remember the accusations of racism that were used to shut down the lab leak theory? Or the demands to censor scientists with any dissenting viewpoints over Covid? The cover up of the Hunter Biden laptop scandal that resulted in journalists from the Post being banned?

The "war on disinformation" their obsessed with is not any different from a "war on fake news". Censorship is a tool of cowards and there are plenty of cowards in both parties that will use it to shut down any dissenting view points.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#43

Post by hunterb123 »

aivisol wrote: post #12
hprotagonist wrote: post #6

A new arrival to Gulag is asked: "What were you given 10 years for?" – "For nothing!" – "Don't lie to us here, now! Everybody knows 'for nothing' is 3 years."

"I am American, I live in a free country: I can go to a main square and call president (Reagan/Nixon/whatever) an idiot and nothing will happen to me!" - "Well, I am Soviet citizen, I also live in a free country: I can go to a main square and call president (Reagan/Nixon/whatever) an idiot and nothing will happen to me!"

I loved when Reagan told Soviet jokes, that was one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3z3eSVG7A

The YT comment section actually has a few gems too.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#44

Post by magicalist »

anthk wrote: post #40
magicalist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is innocent I'm going to go with jailing citizens for 15 years as much worse than mildly critical journalists in Russia. Ignoring your combo whataboutism and gish gallop. Don't think Russia has much jurisdiction over some Spanish news channel.

https://wikiless.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine?lang=en Look what happened in Ukraine. Among neonazis, they supported this: Ukraine's 2017 education law will make Ukrainian the required language of study in state schools from the fifth grade on, although it allows instruction in other languages as a separate subject,[65][66][67] to be phased in in 2023.[68] Since 2017, the Hungary–Ukraine relations rapidly deter…

Posting more and longer non sequiturs just doubles down on the whole "combo whataboutism and gish gallop" thing.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#45

Post by throwaway5752 »

echelon wrote: post #30
pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

> And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely. I'm a liberal and would like to point out that fellow liberals say the same about conservatives. We're wasting energy and making enemies fighting a narrative warfare, and it's frankly very stupid. Jail the their protestors, but not our own. Deplatform their voice…

The global fascist movement has had success hijacking the Republican party and some parts of the left (eg Gabbard). Largely the success on the right was greater because of affinity toward aggrievement in the electoral base that was more susceptible exploitation, but it also reflects the more mature financial channels (eg NRA).

But this is not a left/right political issue. That is incidental. The social exploit of this foreign operational is orthogonal to political ideology and both side stand to suffer substantially. Trump's lack of conservative ideology bona fides are well documented.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#46

Post by EtherTyper »

pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

Or for a more concrete example, look at how both Republicans and Democrats are treating Julian Assange. Investigative journalism and whistleblowing are under attack by all political factions and by the justice system, today. We cannot treat anti-free-press authoritarianism in the West as an "early stage" or tomorrow's problem.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#47

Post by cromd »

ch4s3 wrote: post #27
pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

That's not really a good comparison. Being an asshole to journalists if really different than putting them in jail for their reporting. The difference here is that some Republicans who have no power to actually do that talk shit about doing it, but Putin actually jails a lot of journalists.

I don't think they're saying that Republicans are currently doing what Putin is currently doing. They said some people want to jail journalists, and you seem to be agreeing by saying those people "talk shit" about jailing journalists. Maybe one could say that talk is harmless, but I think most would challenge that.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#48

Post by throwaway5752 »

dev_by_day wrote: post #42
electrondood wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit false equivalence. I notice that Democrats aren't forming white supremacist militias, plotting to kidnap state governors, attacking Congress specifically to overturn the results of a national election, etc.

Democrats have plenty of blood on their hands in demanding censorship. Remember the accusations of racism that were used to shut down the lab leak theory? Or the demands to censor scientists with any dissenting viewpoints over Covid? The cover up of the Hunter Biden laptop scandal that resulted in journalists from the Post being banned? The "war on disinformation" their obsessed with is not any different from a "war…

Division is the goal of the adversary. We should stop arguing for no good reason if we don't have to.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#49

Post by ch4s3 »

gre wrote: post #38
ch4s3 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally laughed out loud when I hit that line in Gulag Archipelago. Solzhenitsyn was brilliant.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't read Russian, so I can't comment on that article.

I don't find the anti-semitism charge very credible, he speaks out against anti-semitism very strongly in both the Gulag Archipelago, and several essays. He also claimed that an anti-semitic essay attributed to him was a hatched job by the KGB, which seems at least possible. I also stand by my claim that he was a brilliant writer. I think if you try to take everything in his descriptions of the Gulag system as literal fact, you'll find historical discrepancies, but his work isn't meant to be wholly historic, but rather more expansive.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#50

Post by stronglikedan »

_ph_ wrote: post #35
akomtu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the blue camp is different only in rhetoric: if the red wants control in the name of national security, the blue wants the same control in the name of grotesque moral rightnessess. Fake news is a good summary of our media today, it just applies to both camps.

As a non-american, I can see how some actions of the left seem to be a bit over the top and as things escalated might really got a bit extreme too. But is a push against racism, for gender equality, LGBT rights really wrong? Do you notice, how much people, who stand for those issues, get attacked in the public discussion?

> racism, for gender equality, LGBT rights

The thing is, those are all non-issues now, and have been for a while. The reason the MSM is known as fake news in the US, is that they keep trying to push these as current issues, even though they've been settled.

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