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“The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

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Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#41

Post by jiscariot »

AceyMan wrote: post #11

I'm 55 now and I'm working on a side gig that's 'skillful manual labor' and I get a lot of satisfaction from the work and from becoming (let's hope) one of the best in the world at the thing. cf, "Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work" by M. Crawford

To me, that book comes across pretty preachy and doesn't offer little in nuance between knowledge work and manual labor, a la starting a motorcycle repair business badly. It also had this "guy switches careers and needs to write a book to justify it" feel.

But I also consider Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance pretty mediocre, while others consider it life changing, so not sure how valid my opinion is.

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#43

Post by gorjusborg »

hughrr wrote: post #31
carlivar wrote: post #26

It's Zoom. I'm convinced. Sure there are some people that have always been remote, but I think two years of isolation has caused a cultural infection that is difficult to isolate but absolutely present. Humans need to be around other humans, and not just their family. At my work we are trying to get team meetups scheduled for roughly April/May. I was worried people aren't ready, but turns out they are actually hungry…

I don’t think it’s that. I’ve been working remotely for nearly a decade now and the real problems were there before: competence and reachability. Competence, or lack thereof is easier to hide or write off now. People aren’t always reactive or reachable. As for being around other humans, I love that. But not colleagues. I have separate friends. You need the context switch away.

You are probably both correct, for your own situation and personality.

Please don't assume there is one universal truth that needs to be forced on others

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#44

Post by belval »

A common mistake around that kind of statement is that people infer that it means actually going to an agricultural lifestyle and just any other farmer and hanging the keyboard for good.

In practice, they'll start automating/building/designing new things after a few weeks. It's not a mindset that you can easily escape. They'll build a greenhouse and think about how cool it would be to setup automated watering, controlled airflow, autofeeders, etc... These things are doable for cheap. They absolutely won't stop being engineers, they'll just be engineers working on a different set of problems.

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#45

Post by UncleMeat »

_8j50 wrote: post #9
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #6

I always tell people that I'm going to quit and become a farmer. I might tell the joke enough times that it becomes true.

Yeah, but then you will get burned out from farming some day. It's what you make of it. Lot of stress in farming when your goal is profit instead of a hobby garden. My $0.02: people are at least 60% of what makes your day job good or bad, given adequate compensation that is. Maybe try companies that are not in tech but need your talent? Go where you're celebrated, not tolerated and all that. Good boss+Coworkers+envir…

I wouldn't even say "when your goal is profit." I'd say "when your goal is a full plate." Growing food in quantities anywhere approaching what you can buy at the supermarket for a few dollars is remarkably hard. The number of cases of "I worked for months on those pepper plants and I got eight small peppers" or "my carrots are so small they are completely unusable" is high.

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#46

Post by blamestross »

carlivar wrote: post #26

It's Zoom. I'm convinced. Sure there are some people that have always been remote, but I think two years of isolation has caused a cultural infection that is difficult to isolate but absolutely present. Humans need to be around other humans, and not just their family. At my work we are trying to get team meetups scheduled for roughly April/May. I was worried people aren't ready, but turns out they are actually hungry…

For me, exactly the other way. Isolating has allowed me to understand that I don't need that connection anywhere as much as I thought I did. Like most short-lived endorphin rushes, if you go without for a few months, you find the urge fades. The pandemic has taught me that being a remote hermit is a viable option for my happiness.

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#47

Post by scsilver »

belval wrote: post #44

A common mistake around that kind of statement is that people infer that it means actually going to an agricultural lifestyle and just any other farmer and hanging the keyboard for good. In practice, they'll start automating/building/designing new things after a few weeks. It's not a mindset that you can easily escape. They'll build a greenhouse and think about how cool it would be to setup automated watering, contro…

Its why I like travelling/hiking/skiing. A shit ton of puzzles to solve with delicious treats, treatments, and experiences to reward your success. Something about solving problems in the warm sun, or a calming snow fall, is very fulfilling, the multisensory experience is refreshing.

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#48

Post by tsol »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #34

When my mother died I went out that day to walk, eat lunch, and keep my head straight. It was surreal. It was like everyone was walking around in a dreamstate, unaware they would die, of the mortality of life. I'll never forget that sensation, how everyday life and consumption and entertainment and routine lull you, distract you, from the inevitabilities of life. COVID was a fundamental disruption to life. ALmost a m…

It's funny though, you can't make people realize this. If I and to you a week prior and yelled "you're going to die, you're a mortal and life is fleeting!" you'd just look at me like I'm crazy and go back to work. It seems like people can't get to that point until they've worked themselves tired, and earned a bit of money.

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#49

Post by ttarabula »

nonameiguess wrote: post #16

Not a new thing by any stretch, though maybe more widespread these days as more people have the money to quit work and don't need to actually earn money as farmers. Back in the pre-Obama era, one of my girlfriends moved to California for grad school from the Pennsylvania Amish country, where her dad was a former electrical engineer who decided he hated it and would rather be a farmer. His was the only non-Amish farm…

reminds me a little of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito_Coast_(novel)

Re: “The smartest engineers I know are burned out and starting vegetable gardens”

#50

Post by belval »

scsilver wrote: post #47
belval wrote: post #44

A common mistake around that kind of statement is that people infer that it means actually going to an agricultural lifestyle and just any other farmer and hanging the keyboard for good. In practice, they'll start automating/building/designing new things after a few weeks. It's not a mindset that you can easily escape. They'll build a greenhouse and think about how cool it would be to setup automated watering, contro…

Its why I like travelling/hiking/skiing. A shit ton of puzzles to solve with delicious treats, treatments, and experiences to reward your success. Something about solving problems in the warm sun, or a calming snow fall, is very fulfilling, the multisensory experience is refreshing.

(Assuming this is sarcasm)

I am not saying that you can't take a break and do stuff that has nothing to do with problem solving. My point is that once you've built that mindset of system thinking and automating tasks, combined with skills that allow you to actually implement the routines needed for a given task, you will find it hard to not optimize daily toil.

I am not saying that this applies to everyone, but it most definitely applies to everyone I know that decided to "give up and live on a farm".

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