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There is no such thing as a CEO of pre-product startup. Get off of it.

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Re: There is no such thing as a CEO of pre-product startup. Get off of it.

#41

Post by onan_barbarian »

wlievens wrote: post #39
onan_barbarian wrote: post #34

This seems superficially attractive, and it's hard to imagine too many people making a spirited defense of the 'all chiefs, no indians' job title inflation. But there's a bullshit aspect to it that bothers me - it seems to be ignoring something basic that's being communicated when people insist on CxO titles. Specifically, people who insist on CxO titles at some stage in a startup where it seems a bit pretentious may…

If the main purpose is "reserving" the title for the potential future, wouldn't some kind of contract be more effective and less pretentious? Just asking.

What would this contract look like, and say? All up it seems a lot more complex - and potentially brittle and problematic - than just saying "look, we have a CEO and CTO now, for what that's worth in a tiny company, deal with it".

Re: There is no such thing as a CEO of pre-product startup. Get off of it.

#42

Post by whacker »

steverb wrote: post #22

Heh. I once worked in sales / technical support / geekery for a smallish computer/networking var. Since I was the only sales person other than the owner I was given my choice of titles. I chose "Vice President of Intergalactic Sales and Extra-Terrestrial Support". It barely fit on the business card. It did win us some occasional business though.

I used to enjoy the title "Hacker" at my previous job.

Was sad to leave it.

Re: There is no such thing as a CEO of pre-product startup. Get off of it.

#43

Post by Duff »

randomdata wrote: post #12
Duff wrote: post #9

I think it's appropriate to have a title on a business card or whatever that describes your role in a meaningful way. "Principal", "Founder", etc. Corporate titles sound silly in small businesses -- I had my driveway sealed by the "President and CEO" of a driveway sealing business the other day. People in contact with customers should have flexibility or use multiple titles. If you're trying to get an audience with a…

I never understood the point of having a title. I find the government is especially interested in my title/occupation and I never know what I should be telling them. Professionally, I am a farmer, a programmer, a designer, an administrator, and was even a baker for a short while; though, sadly, I gave it up as it was too time consuming on top of the rest. Not to mention all of the business stuff that goes along with…

Government is very hierarchical. Everyone basically makes the same amount of money, so status is the only differentiation between people.

I worked for a government agency for a long time. At one point of my career, bigshots at the director level would not acknowledge my presence in a room. Later, they were my best buddies, because I was high enough on the ladder to be a minor "player" to potentially influence one of their peers.

Re: There is no such thing as a CEO of pre-product startup. Get off of it.

#44

Post by randomdata »

Duff wrote: post #43
randomdata wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the point of having a title. I find the government is especially interested in my title/occupation and I never know what I should be telling them. Professionally, I am a farmer, a programmer, a designer, an administrator, and was even a baker for a short while; though, sadly, I gave it up as it was too time consuming on top of the rest. Not to mention all of the business stuff that goes along with…

Government is very hierarchical. Everyone basically makes the same amount of money, so status is the only differentiation between people. I worked for a government agency for a long time. At one point of my career, bigshots at the director level would not acknowledge my presence in a room. Later, they were my best buddies, because I was high enough on the ladder to be a minor "player" to potentially influence one of…

I have never actually worked for government directly, but I was referring more to things like passports, where they are very interested in what I do for a living.

I don't even know what I do for a living, I just work on what needs to be done or feels right at any given time. My job is to solve problems and create value for others, just like everyone else. You can't be more specific than that.

Re: There is no such thing as a CEO of pre-product startup. Get off of it.

#45

Post by prodigal_erik »

doki_pen wrote: post #30
prodigal_erik wrote: post #13

> And if your early guys ask what they should put on their resume, tell them put anything down. If you are called about a former employee and can't answer the question "what was their title" with something more concrete than "meh, whatever", you will sound like a fraudulent reference. You're inadvertently screwing over your employees if you don't pick something reasonable and stick with it (modulo actual role changes…

What's wrong with honestly saying, "I worked for a small start up and we didn't have titles". Why do you have to pretend it was something it wasn't?

Do most hiring managers believe that? I'd be fine with it but I'm not the one looking at whether they want a career path that isn't going to fit at our company, just whether I think they're capable of the work.

Re: There is no such thing as a CEO of pre-product startup. Get off of it.

#46

Post by wooyi »

MediaSquirrel wrote: post #17

It sounds to me like you're misdiagnosing the problem. The problem isn't too much hierarchy, it's too little! Your CEO friend needs to grow a pair and demote his CTO co-founder. Ideally, he would sell his co-founder on the idea of doing this voluntarily. This will not be an easy discussion. Titles and hierarchy matter in a startup because someone has to be able to make decisions in the face of disagreement. Decision…

I agree, you definitely need a CEO. A startup is not a democracy and you need accountability. The CEO needs to set the vision and make executive decisions or veto bad ones. It's part of the job. If everyone is accountable, then no one is.
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