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Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

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Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#41

Post by boredtofears »

lmm wrote: post #8
stavros wrote: post #4

I completely don't get location-based pay. I provide you with some work, that's worth some amount of money. Why does my location change the value of my work? Do I suddenly become better if I move to SF? I get that some people have arguments for it, I just entirely disagree that any of them are valid. Whether I'm in a city that costs a lot to live in is no more the responsibility of my employer than whether I like to…

> Do I suddenly become better if I move to SF? You probably do - you're probably hanging out with other programmers more, maybe you can meet up with colleagues sometimes - or, even better, suppliers and clients. And you have more options for other employers, so you can capture more of the spread as producer surplus rather than consumer surplus.

Yes, the bay is the only place you can hang out with programmers or meet with suppliers and clients.

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#42

Post by jstx1 »

stavros wrote: post #40
ehnto wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that it's silly but the common misconception is that salary is based on some kind value exchange, it's not. Salary is the minimum amount of money it will take to get someone to work for you. Of course there are exceptions, but most salaried workers are not the exception. Maybe that price gets driven up because of HCOL, or maybe it gets driven up by market competition, or skills scarcity (putting the…

People making this argument forget it works both ways. Why would I go to the company that does COL adjustments and pays me less than the one that doesn't?

> Why would I go to the company that does COL adjustments and pays me less than the one that doesn't?

All other things being equal, you don't have a reason to accept a lower offer but that's completely separate from the question of COL adjustments. If the best offer you get is from a company that has a COL adjustment policy, well... that's still the best offer that's available to you.

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#43

Post by stavros »

jstx1 wrote: post #42
stavros wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making this argument forget it works both ways. Why would I go to the company that does COL adjustments and pays me less than the one that doesn't?

> Why would I go to the company that does COL adjustments and pays me less than the one that doesn't? All other things being equal, you don't have a reason to accept a lower offer but that's completely separate from the question of COL adjustments. If the best offer you get is from a company that has a COL adjustment policy, well... that's still the best offer that's available to you.

I agree that it's completely separate, but I didn't make the argument, others did (on the demand side). I'm merely rebutting it.

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#44

Post by ceilingcorner »

Getting employees to accept remote work was a brilliant reverse psychology move by companies. Now industry salaries will drop as it becomes acceptable to hire in low cost regions or abroad. This will happen automatically as the market adjusts.

If you are a highly paid engineer and want to keep it that way, you should do everything in your power to limit the industry to specific geographical locations.

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#45

Post by ehnto »

stavros wrote: post #40
ehnto wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that it's silly but the common misconception is that salary is based on some kind value exchange, it's not. Salary is the minimum amount of money it will take to get someone to work for you. Of course there are exceptions, but most salaried workers are not the exception. Maybe that price gets driven up because of HCOL, or maybe it gets driven up by market competition, or skills scarcity (putting the…

People making this argument forget it works both ways. Why would I go to the company that does COL adjustments and pays me less than the one that doesn't?

That still works in the worldview I laid out, because you simply won't accept less. I guess part of my point was that it's not a bout COL specifically, it's about how low people in the market are willing to accept. If you have high COL you simply can't accept less, and if you have low COL but are in a spicy market, you don't have to accept less if you don't want to.

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#46

Post by wdb »

nightski wrote: post #15
Mave83 wrote: post #11

Why does it make sense to pay different per location? Because you should pay equal. If you just use the same number on the payslip, some get more than others. It's like with currency. There is no reason to pay everyone 10k of their local currency, as that won't make sense. But paying 10k of the same makes none as well as for some this means they can have butlers, and other only get a bed under the next bridge. Paymen…

Presumably if you are in a higher cost of living area you chose to live there because you obtain a higher standard of living (otherwise one may want to re-think that decision). Why should that be subsidized by your peers? Maybe I should get a raise to buy video games?

High cost of living area sadly doesn't mean a higher standard of living. For example, the living standard in UK or London is much worse compared to other countries in Europe (e.g. Netherlands or Belgium).

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#47

Post by wdb »

The costs in some parts of Europe has increased, e.g. people might now need to pay 500+ EUR per month (from like 150EUR) for the energy bill (electricity, gas and water) but I don't expect this will get swiftly adapted to cover this major jump by these COL schemes

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#48

Post by stavros »

ehnto wrote: post #45
stavros wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making this argument forget it works both ways. Why would I go to the company that does COL adjustments and pays me less than the one that doesn't?

That still works in the worldview I laid out, because you simply won't accept less. I guess part of my point was that it's not a bout COL specifically, it's about how low people in the market are willing to accept. If you have high COL you simply can't accept less, and if you have low COL but are in a spicy market, you don't have to accept less if you don't want to.

Sure, but I can replace "high COL" in your sentence with "like to drive Ferraris" and it is equally valid, and I don't think anyone will claim that the employer has to pay for my Ferrari affinity.

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#49

Post by dgellow »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #34
dgellow wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it mostly due to different taxes, or when the product is in part manufactured locally (so different costs)?

often, but there are solutions out there to allow you to set a location based price - generally based on analysis of what the market in the area will pay - for example here https://www.optimum7.com/blog/programming-2/location-based-p... you can do it but it is frowned up but as they say here: "The functionality works like a charm, which is exactly how Amazon or Staples.com works! You get to sell the same product at d…

I cannot read your link (I'm in Germany):

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> If you think you have been blocked in error, contact the owner of this site for assistance.

> Block Reason: Access from your area has been temporarily limited for security reasons.

Re: Our vision for location-independent salaries at Buffer

#50

Post by emerged »

stavros wrote: post #4

I completely don't get location-based pay. I provide you with some work, that's worth some amount of money. Why does my location change the value of my work? Do I suddenly become better if I move to SF? I get that some people have arguments for it, I just entirely disagree that any of them are valid. Whether I'm in a city that costs a lot to live in is no more the responsibility of my employer than whether I like to…

People from SV like to convince themselves they deserve more money because they happened to squat in one of the most absurdly expensive places in the country.

I agree, as a resident of Gold and Diamond Castles Avenue.

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