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Perl 5.14.2 is now available

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Re: Perl 5.14.2 is now available

#41

Post by hartror »

berntb wrote: post #29
hartror wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My words do. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I prefer many things about Python over Perl not just the syntax. I wasn't claiming that I think others are stupid for liking or using it, just my personal preference of what I like in a language. Perhaps I could have worded it a little less flame bait like: Pity I didn't like your idioms and we had to break up as my eyes and heart prefer Python. Any better?

>>I prefer many things about Python over Perl I have been doing Python a bit now and am of the opposite opinion. Except for CPAN I miss the advanced stuff like Moose (better OO) and extensible syntax. I might be too new to the language. E.g., I don't really get the list comprehension -- it looks like a kludge around the lack of multi line code blocks, so Python can't have nice a map() syntax. But people seems to love…

List comprehension is one of those things I miss every I use another language. I am not sure what you mean with: it looks like a kludge around the lack of multi line code blocks could you provide and example?

Re: Perl 5.14.2 is now available

#42

Post by danssig »

gatlin wrote: post #40
danssig wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a modern, general purpose language for which there isn't more than one way to do most things and I'll show you a language you don't know very well. Even Python, who's motto would be closer to "one right way to do it" always has more than one way. So you're statement doesn't explain anything I'm afraid.

I don't think the things you two are saying are mutually exclusive. Perl is ugly in inexperienced or rushed hands, and other languages do have flexibility and general purpose. I will say that I have found my muse in Perl, and that it allows me to express ideas succinctly and beautifully but that's not to the detriment of Python (with which I made a livelihood for a few years). If you want beautiful Perl, pick up Kauf…

I understand you're not bashing other languages, I just get tired of these tautologies getting trotted out anytime someone complains about perl so I decided to challenge them.

>The author claims that where most people write C in Perl, his book is an attempt to convince you to write Lisp in Perl.

Wouldn't it be less work to just write Lisp in Lisp?

Re: Perl 5.14.2 is now available

#43

Post by berntb »

hartror wrote: post #41
berntb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I prefer many things about Python over Perl I have been doing Python a bit now and am of the opposite opinion. Except for CPAN I miss the advanced stuff like Moose (better OO) and extensible syntax. I might be too new to the language. E.g., I don't really get the list comprehension -- it looks like a kludge around the lack of multi line code blocks, so Python can't have nice a map() syntax. But people seems to love…

List comprehension is one of those things I miss every I use another language. I am not sure what you mean with: it looks like a kludge around the lack of multi line code blocks could you provide and example?

Don't you know what map is? But you claimed to be an old Perl programmer?

I wrote "Python can't have nice a map() syntax", because of its lack of code blocks. And that list comprehensions seems like a one-statement kludge of the map functionality.

How could I have been clearer?

OK... second attempt to explain this point: :-)

List comprehension seems to me like a one statement replacement of a map function (and that one-statement often makes you think of Perl golf.)

And a third attempt: :-)

It seems to me that list comprehension would never have been implemented -- if Python had added (optional) support for ';' (+ '{'/'}') and hence code blocks. That is because Python would then use map() instead of list comprehensions (like all other scripting languages, lisps, etc).

(Also, a side effect of optional ';' support would mean that Python wouldn't be worthless garbage as a bash cmd line tool.)

But please enlighten me about use cases not done clearer/better with code blocks?

I note that you don't argue about the fan bois point... :-)

Re: Perl 5.14.2 is now available

#44

Post by berntb »

danssig wrote: post #42
gatlin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the things you two are saying are mutually exclusive. Perl is ugly in inexperienced or rushed hands, and other languages do have flexibility and general purpose. I will say that I have found my muse in Perl, and that it allows me to express ideas succinctly and beautifully but that's not to the detriment of Python (with which I made a livelihood for a few years). If you want beautiful Perl, pick up Kauf…

I understand you're not bashing other languages, I just get tired of these tautologies getting trotted out anytime someone complains about perl so I decided to challenge them. >The author claims that where most people write C in Perl, his book is an attempt to convince you to write Lisp in Perl. Wouldn't it be less work to just write Lisp in Lisp?

Lots of people would be happy to use lisp instead of Perl or other scripting languages.

For instance, the CPAN module Devel::Declare is a sad excuse for real lisp macros but, afaik, it is still better than most anything else.

(Lisp dialects are sadly seldom possible to use for lack needed libraries like good Unicode support, etc.)

(Btw, Mark Jason Dominus wrote "Higher-Order Perl" http://hop.perl.plover.com/)

Re: Perl 5.14.2 is now available

#45

Post by gatlin »

berntb wrote: post #44
danssig wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you're not bashing other languages, I just get tired of these tautologies getting trotted out anytime someone complains about perl so I decided to challenge them. >The author claims that where most people write C in Perl, his book is an attempt to convince you to write Lisp in Perl. Wouldn't it be less work to just write Lisp in Lisp?

Lots of people would be happy to use lisp instead of Perl or other scripting languages. For instance, the CPAN module Devel::Declare is a sad excuse for real lisp macros but, afaik, it is still better than most anything else. (Lisp dialects are sadly seldom possible to use for lack needed libraries like good Unicode support, etc.) (Btw, Mark Jason Dominus wrote "Higher-Order Perl" http://hop.perl.plover.com/ )

I had one of those days where I read the publisher's name, not the author's. Sorry, Mr Dominus!

Re: Perl 5.14.2 is now available

#46

Post by draegtun »

draegtun wrote: post #34
wildmXranat wrote: post #27

Cool. Nice to see the updates coming but it's rather lightweight and minor. Of all my pet projects and scripts, Perl ones hold the most value. Lala.com music downloader comes to mind.

This is just a maintenance update to 5.12, ie. the latest stable version of Perl. The next version (5.16) is due in Spring 2012 and there are regular (monthly) updates to this on the 5.15 development track: * 5.15.0 - http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/perl-5.15.3/pod/perl5150delta... * 5.15.1 - http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/perl-5.15.3/pod/perl5151delta... * 5.15.2 - http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/perl-5.15.3/pod/perl5…

Opps typo! Its maintenance update to 5.14
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