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Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

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Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#41

Post by thelock85 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23
earspider wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

I think you've missed the point. Employers have a valid reason to want to disallow those with criminal backgrounds from a large swath of jobs. This is an area where I think regulation would be helpful/necessary, in that when doing a background check that the employer needs to enter business and job scope, and then the law would define which types of criminal background would be relevant and potentially disqualifying…

Regardless of regulation, I don't see anyone who has to disclose a criminal history getting a job, unless the employer is already open to giving formerly incarcerated people an opportunity. IMHO, criminal background is a screening filter, not a thoughtful decision point. So while your criminal history is being cross-referenced with the regulation to see how you qualify, the potential employer has already labeled you as an "ex-con" in their head.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#42

Post by kylehotchkiss »

Animats wrote: post #18

"By age 35, 64% of unemployed men have been arrested and 46% have been convicted of a crime, with the rates varying only slightly by race and ethnicity." Well, executing criminals for minor offenses seems to be out of fashion.[1] Transportation to Australia or Siberia is no longer an option. There's no frontier to ship them off to. And the US military doesn't want criminals; each soldier today has too much firepower.…

Does the military consider criminal records even for support jobs? Theres a very broad variety of military jobs outside of being a solider, and the military offers structure, potential long term friendships with people from different backgrounds, a long term career based on good behavior, or a launching pad into a wide variety of other post-military jobs. I know it's not glamorous work but reliable and well respected throughout a broad part of American society.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#44

Post by KorematsuFredt »

earspider wrote: post #15
jl6 wrote: post #10

In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements - chiefly, unskilled manual labor. A criminal record wasn’t such a barrier to that type of employment. Someone could spend time in prison, and then still find work on the outside. Not great work perhaps, but a living - a way forward for them, to re-integrate back into society. A way to slowly rebuild trust. The shift away from unskilled manu…

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

That would not work. I do not want my teenage daughter to do part time work in a business that employs a sex offender. I do not want to work with an insurance agent who engaged in a financial fraud few years ago.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#45

Post by chrisseaton »

Zak wrote: post #36
chrisseaton wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative to public conviction information? Secret trials?

Some countries have a concept of a right to be forgotten. After a certain amount of time passes, information about criminal convictions is no longer public; disseminating such information is generally illegal; making employment decisions based on it is also illegal. It's not airtight, but it wouldn't need to be to alleviate the problem. It would restrict what mainstream background check providers could offer. https:/…

Sounds a bit dystopian requiring everyone to pretend that a trial never took place when people know it did?

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#46

Post by giraffe_lady »

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #44
earspider wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

That would not work. I do not want my teenage daughter to do part time work in a business that employs a sex offender. I do not want to work with an insurance agent who engaged in a financial fraud few years ago.

You've said why you don't like it but not why it wouldn't work.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#47

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #44
earspider wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

That would not work. I do not want my teenage daughter to do part time work in a business that employs a sex offender. I do not want to work with an insurance agent who engaged in a financial fraud few years ago.

Are those not exceptions? How many of the unemployed young men have criminal records concerning sex offense or financial fraud?

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#48

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #42
Animats wrote: post #18

"By age 35, 64% of unemployed men have been arrested and 46% have been convicted of a crime, with the rates varying only slightly by race and ethnicity." Well, executing criminals for minor offenses seems to be out of fashion.[1] Transportation to Australia or Siberia is no longer an option. There's no frontier to ship them off to. And the US military doesn't want criminals; each soldier today has too much firepower.…

Does the military consider criminal records even for support jobs? Theres a very broad variety of military jobs outside of being a solider, and the military offers structure, potential long term friendships with people from different backgrounds, a long term career based on good behavior, or a launching pad into a wide variety of other post-military jobs. I know it's not glamorous work but reliable and well respected…

I think a felony disqualifies you from military service (hard to get clearance). Maybe someone else can speak on getting waivers but I've heard that the possibility is grim. And keep in mind, that in the US between prosecutor overcharging and harsh sentencing, everything is a felony. Drug convictions make up the plurality of felony cases[1].

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Felony_S...

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#49

Post by WalterBright »

bombcar wrote: post #14
WalterBright wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I wouldn't want a former embezzler in a bookkeeping job at my company.

That's the point - a former embezzler being hired as a plumber is different than hiring them as a bookkeeper. However, until the employees are more scarce than jobs, there's no reason to hire an ex-con and every reason to skip over them (bureaucratically speaking). To counter that you'd need to offer incentives TO hire them - tax write-offs or something, or liability protections. Or you have to expunge records at som…

There's another reason why companies don't want to hire felons - liability.

I've seen many companies successfully sued over the years because one of their employees committed a crime against a customer. The lawsuit was because the company hired an ex-con.

To get companies to hire ex-cons, liability laws need to be amended to protect companies from that sort of liability.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#50

Post by lr4444lr »

deeg wrote: post #38
jl6 wrote: post #10

In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements - chiefly, unskilled manual labor. A criminal record wasn’t such a barrier to that type of employment. Someone could spend time in prison, and then still find work on the outside. Not great work perhaps, but a living - a way forward for them, to re-integrate back into society. A way to slowly rebuild trust. The shift away from unskilled manu…

I wonder if the growing number of WFH jobs would help alleviate this. I'm a software engineer who mostly works from home. We sell (mostly) support for OSS. This seems like a situation where an ex-con might have an opportunity.

I'm not seeing this materializing. You're talking about not only jobs where employees have secret keys and admin access to data, but on top of that, no fear of anyone peeking over their shoulder even if there is some remote system monitoring. The trust required for the person not to abuse the privileged access and to have a reduced chance of getting caught is a huge risk.
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