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Reddit can't build a better search engine

ruky.me

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Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#41
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is only more recently that they seem to have given up. They haven't given up; the OP has a point. The "sites" you are hoping for Google to return _don't exist_. Any website online right now that doesn't exist to drive ad revenue is exceedingly rare. In 2001, there were way more websites that existed just for fun; any tom, dick and harry could open up note pad and get a website online. That doesn't exist anymore.…

Google intentionally finds synonyms for obscure jargon that would have typically turned up these sites. The verbatim setting barely makes a difference. The reliance on synonyms and semantically related topics has made iterative refining impossible as well, it's essentially non-converging. My solution has been to search in multiple foreign languages, which looks less conducive to these "affordances".

YES exactly THIS.

When the "No Search results" page was deleted, the internet died.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#42
post #6
post #4

This is exactly right: if Reddit ever decided to build a search engine they'd wind up destroying their site, because everyone would try to game the results and fill Reddit with crap to do it. The point it is that search engines are adversarial: people who are skilled and determined are actively trying to replace good results with their results.

This is a good point I'd never considered before. The better your search, the more people will try to game it, the worse your results will get.

You (and the OP) are echoing Goodhart's Law, which describes one of the reasons that I've lost faith in the wisdom of markets.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#43
I've said it before and I'll say it again... I think building better search goes against everything Reddit wants to be. Reddit doesn't want to be Google or Wikipedia. Reddit wants to be a mix between Discord, TikTok, and Instagram.

The redesign they did years ago pushed a more Instagram like design. Things like chat and rPan are meant to keep you on the site interacting with other users in real time. Their new video player is just a TikTok rip off. They give away awards every day and started pushing award karma in hopes that you'll give them to other users. Reddit wants you on their site, interacting with other users in real time and building a better search goes against that goal.

If I'm looking for a new pair of boots, there's two paths I can take on the reddit site. I can search "best boots" or I can go make a post on /r/boots. If their search is fantastic and I find a post that's 2 years old, there may be some great information there, but I'm probably not going to comment. Even if I do comment, I'm probably not going to get a lot of responses. If their search is shit (intentionally or unintentionally) it pushes me toward making my own post and drives up their engagement metrics.

It would be a massive undertaking to improve their search and there's very little incentive. Reddit wants users who just want to browse and that's not what the users coming in from a specific Google search are doing.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#44
I still remembered Panda change they made in 2011.

It is vividly burned in my memory because I used to work for one of those trash website that polluted Google search results.

When Panda came out, I was like… what took you so long (also, time to get a new job).

For whatever reason, Google is too shy to pull that move again.

Just imagine, Pinterest could easily be obliterated in one random day.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#45

> I was too young to use Google when it first got started, but according to many, in the beginning, Google had better or more accurate search results. One reason for this was the fact that most of the sites back then were indie websites, which did not care about SEO and money and created websites for sharing information. > But I think all can agree that Google results reduced when people started to game the algorithm…

> It is only more recently that they seem to have given up. They haven't given up; the OP has a point. The "sites" you are hoping for Google to return _don't exist_. Any website online right now that doesn't exist to drive ad revenue is exceedingly rare. In 2001, there were way more websites that existed just for fun; any tom, dick and harry could open up note pad and get a website online. That doesn't exist anymore.…

> It's my opinion that those who complain about Google search results are frustrated that Google can no longer find a web that no longer exists

You ever try to search for a niche piece of software for your computer? Google surfaces the "Top 7 Best software" content farm articles before you ever get to the official sites. That's what some of us are frustrated about.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#46
This is too dismissive. Reddit users and communities have history, links, upvotes etc, which is hugely valuable, and it should be possible to implement a PageRank-type system to separate the signal from the noise and surface the most valuable results. Now that noise is still considerable, thanks to karma farming etc (did you know you can buy and sell Reddit accounts?), but humans can usually tell apart the shills from the legit posters and automating this doesn't seem unsurmountable if Reddit cared. Which, oddly, they don't seem to.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#47
This is a weird article to me. I somehow agree with the conclusion but disagree with all of its points.

Unless my memory is failing me (possible, it’s late), it straw mans the article it’s referencing by implying Reddit would want to do something like that anyway. It also fails to offer a compelling narrative for what makes Reddit good to me because frankly, and I feel that a lot of people seem to be overlooking this here too, Reddit has plenty of its own problems.

Reddit is owned by Condé Nast and is largely used as a content mill to prop up its existing properties. Reddit is dominated by the Pareto principle. 80% of its content is generated by a very small subset of users. Reddit doesn’t have the best track record for free expression. Many subreddits have crazy moderators that volunteer for some Machiavellian rush and use their power to stifle or twist the narrative of public sentiment. Reddit doesn’t want to kill the golden goose, so when this kind of controversy arises or when controversial subreddits crop up they kill it with fire to protect their investment. Lastly, Reddit users more than half a decade ago were already lambasting the amount of corporate shilling and guerilla advertising that takes place on Reddit daily. A lot of this is, in fact, orchestrated by those users I mentioned who produce 80% of the content because yes, they have discovered a financial incentive to do so.

I wouldn’t deny that Reddit has any sincere users any more than I would deny that we have any sincere users here (I’m certainly not getting paid for this), but I’ve been a bit perturbed by the amount of whitewashed, positive vibes Reddit seems to be getting around here lately. I stick Reddit on the end of search queries too, but I feel like I still wade into results with a similar level of skepticism to that which I carry around most of the rest of the web.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#48

Thanks for posting op, it's interesting to think about. > Reddit posts are good because the people who create these posts or make comments are doing it to share their knowledge. I would offer a bit of a different perspective here, I think maybe even most do it for what you could call self-soothing. For example, a lot of people share knowledge, but it's _their knowledge_, which can also be defined as _sharing their su…

> I would offer a bit of a different perspective here, I think maybe even most do it for what you could call self-soothing. > > For example, a lot of people share knowledge, but it's _their knowledge_, which can also be defined as _sharing their subjective past_ and that's known to be a very soothing thing for people who may even be troubled by the unknown in their personal lives. Hop online, boom, you're a domain expert in your own past. Find a place that's _about your past_, be it /r/linux or /r/formula1 or whatever, and there you go, it's comfy. You generally get an upvote + reply vibes dopamine bonus just for being there, due to your relevant past.

That's a bit too psycho-analytical. A lot of what gets shared on technical/domain-expertise subs are simply technical knowledge. Most posts on such subs are questions, and upvoted comments are typically answers. If you accuse people of feeling good about helping others with their knowledge, well, I'd say that the joy is well-earned by the generous act.

In fact, if we are talking about the exhilaration of being upvoted, it's much easier to farm karma on reddit by lying. There are many big subs that are purely made up stories.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#49

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I think building better search goes against everything Reddit wants to be. Reddit doesn't want to be Google or Wikipedia. Reddit wants to be a mix between Discord, TikTok, and Instagram. The redesign they did years ago pushed a more Instagram like design. Things like chat and rPan are meant to keep you on the site interacting with other users in real time. Their new video…

There is massive incentive, since Google earns over $50B per quarter selling ads to people who want to buy stuff. Targeting these queries effectively would be hugely more valuable than my current ad selection of increasingly desperate shitcoin/NFT shilling and pleas to buy Reddit gold.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#50

> I was too young to use Google when it first got started, but according to many, in the beginning, Google had better or more accurate search results. One reason for this was the fact that most of the sites back then were indie websites, which did not care about SEO and money and created websites for sharing information. > But I think all can agree that Google results reduced when people started to game the algorithm…

> It is only more recently that they seem to have given up. They haven't given up; the OP has a point. The "sites" you are hoping for Google to return _don't exist_. Any website online right now that doesn't exist to drive ad revenue is exceedingly rare. In 2001, there were way more websites that existed just for fun; any tom, dick and harry could open up note pad and get a website online. That doesn't exist anymore.…

In this vein it used to be easy to find dissenting opinions on something:

sucks

RIP "sucks".

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