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The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

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Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#41

Post by lariati »

lmm wrote: post #30
BeefWellington wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno about that. Thought experiment: The Earth is a flat disc. Is this misinformation, wrongthink, or both? To be sure it's a vague term applied quite continuously online but simply deflecting it as actually meaning "wrongthink" is disingenuous. There's a lot of misinformation being spread specifically about objective measurable facts. It is simultaneously true that a lot of opinions are being mislabeled as misinf…

> The Earth is a flat disc. > Is this misinformation, wrongthink, or both? You missed the fourth option: it's neither. No-one would call it misinformation or wrongthink; rather it's false, or a lie if you're feeling judgemental. I think the person you replied to has made a good point.

Noise?

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#42

Post by kevin_b_er »

BeefWellington wrote: post #16
gorwell wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you hear the word `misinformation`, you can generally substitute with `wrongthink`. It makes much more sense that way.

I dunno about that. Thought experiment: The Earth is a flat disc. Is this misinformation, wrongthink, or both? To be sure it's a vague term applied quite continuously online but simply deflecting it as actually meaning "wrongthink" is disingenuous. There's a lot of misinformation being spread specifically about objective measurable facts. It is simultaneously true that a lot of opinions are being mislabeled as misinf…

The firehose of falsehoods relies on this.

The liar can produce 10 lies and demands you disprove them or they are somehow true. The burden of the liar proving their reasoning is missing.

The goal is that their opinion and your fact be treated with equal weight or the opinion has greater weight simply because they can produce more "opinions" more often than you can facts.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#43

Post by lnxg33k1 »

feurio wrote: post #28
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #5

One of the worst example that I bring (unfortunately) in my mind, was from like mid-pandemic, when people around was complaining due to newspapers (in that occasion, the BBC in particular), for spreading misinformation.. and you know why they were spreading misinformation? Because they were supporting the right of chronicles by reporting about protests against coronavirus lockdown protests... this was the spreading o…

> things that are happening but are wrong for wokes I'll admit that I found parsing the whole comment rather difficult so I may have missed something, but what are "wokes"?

I am not sure, english is not my mother tongue so I might have written something in a non-understandable way, if there's something that I might have written better let me know if you want. As for wokes -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#44

Post by johnNumen »

twa999 wrote: post #33

this piece encapsulates the mindset of mainstream libs like Matty, 1 billion stupid takes, Yglesias perfectly and can be summarized as "yeah maybe these normal people were right on some things and I dismissed that without knowing anything, but I was still right to dismiss that because they're stupid". it's now safe for Bari Weiss to ask some questions on TV that "normal people" have been asking for quite some time no…

Exactly. I loved how even in this piece he managed to sneak in some jabs at the people he doesn't like--he just didn't call them "misinformed." Progress!

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#45

Post by mschuster91 »

> More generally, I think a lot of excessive worry about “misinformation” is driven by the erroneous belief that more factual information would resolve political disputes.

The key thing that journalism should do is take factual information and provide context. If 99.999% of scientists claim the earth is a ball and 0.001% claim the earth is flat, for fucks sake don't present these two things as equal. With vaccines it's the same. Just how much airtime was given to people blathering that vaccines cause autism, which is a decades-old debunked fraud? Way too much.

And the result of that lack of providing context in media (or, worse, outright and willing deception of the Alex Jones class) is what is the problem. When media or government institutions prove that they are not willing to do their job, people end up not trusting them - which then leads to the disconnect between wide swaths of the population and factual truth we're seeing.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#46

Post by softwarebeware »

IMO the author displays confirmation bias in the post. He doesn't think about the effects of a higher availability information with a lower ability to seek out other contradicting points of view. If you're deluged with carefully chosen factual information, that's more convincing than outright lies. And this is often the situation we are in more often than not these days. Along with an inability to spot logical fallacies in lines of reasoning.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#47

Post by feurio »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #43
feurio wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things that are happening but are wrong for wokes I'll admit that I found parsing the whole comment rather difficult so I may have missed something, but what are "wokes"?

I am not sure, english is not my mother tongue so I might have written something in a non-understandable way, if there's something that I might have written better let me know if you want. As for wokes -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

OK, thank you for clarifying.

So "wokes" are people who are 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination'.

> newspaper should not report things that are happening but are wrong for wokes, they should only report things that they like, even if what they don't like happened and makes news

So what have "wokes" got to do with anything? They are just people who aren't racist, right?

Again, maybe I have misunderstood.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#48

Post by sleepingadmin »

gorwell wrote: post #31
sleepingadmin wrote: post #20

Misinformation is misinformation. I am certain I am misinformed about many things. The correct response to when I post misinformation is to inform. What happened recently with the move to yellow journalism is not misinformation but rather censorship. Fact checkers end up labelling things in order to censor them. The interesting thing on my mind in regards to Canada. Trudeau has changed. He would take on people head o…

I hadn't thought about it that way, but it certainly would explain his actions. You don't compromise with nazis. If you're convinced that's what they are. This would explain a lot about Trump too. He was in a misinformation bubble as well. Which means even world leaders aren't immune to this tribal trap.

>I hadn't thought about it that way, but it certainly would explain his actions. You don't compromise with nazis after all.

The question though, are these protests really what he has called them? Are they really a military occupation?

>This would explain a lot about Trump too. He was in a misinformation bubble as well.

100% true. You will find even republican ideologues have called him out on many of his bullshit things. Hell his rhetoric was toxic. Tons of improvement could happen over Trump.

>Which means even world leaders aren't immune to this tribal trap.

It's built into our psychology, but not something out of control. Harper was in power for 9 years and never called in the military. He never demonized his political opponents. He never falsely labelled a peaceful protest as a military occupation. He never smeared political opponents as 'racists and white nationalists with unacceptable views'. He never declared a state of emergency to crush dissent.

Trudeau doesn't need the military. He gave himself to power to seize your bank account because you're a protester. No court orders. No due process.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385

Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland said at Monday's news conference that banks would be able freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests without any need for a court order.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#49

Post by UncleOxidant »

pdonis wrote: post #27
legitster wrote: post #19

The biggest change is how aware we are of others' views. The internet thrives on showing you people who are "wrong". I wish we would do away with public opinion polling as news. It does nothing to actually inform or help people, but it makes us obsessed with culture wars. Only 60 something percent of Americans believed the moon landings were real the year they happened. Imagine if someone flashed on the screen to tel…

> Only 60 something percent of Americans believed the moon landings were real the year they happened. What is your basis for this? Were you alive then? I was. I watched the first Moon landing on television. Nobody was talking about how it was faked.

Same here, I was 7. Nobody was saying "did you see that fake moon landing?". It was only years later that I became aware that there were people on the fringe who thought it was faked, but I never personally met anyone with that opinion.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#50

Post by lariati »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #34
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #12

From the article: > That said, I do not think there is much evidence that misinformation has become more widespread, that this increase in misinformation is due to technological change, or that it is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about. I don't know if misinformation is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about , not least because it really depends on the author's…

It's interesting to consider, but the article references multiple political scientists who've studied conspiracy theories and concluded that they don't spread faster today. Is there a reason to believe they're wrong?

I think this partially a myopic view from young people.

I remember being a little kid and watching a week long show about the JFK conspiracy on either one of the big 3 networks or PBS. Area 51 alien conspiracy is so ubiquitous I don't even know how you would track it 30 years ago.

Alex Jones that is banned from youtube for all these crazy conspiracy theories he puts out use to be on practically nationally on AM radio stations for hours a day. The Art Bell show was broadcast nightly for decades and was maybe even more insane than Alex Jones.

It is telling that the people who are weaponizing this concept of "misinformation" do not point it at all at Bigfoot researchers. What is more "misinformation" than the idea of giant apes running around the US forest? Of course, that doesn't count because there is no political gain to be had.

The whole process is so transparent.

We basically have epistemological certainty as long as their is political gain to be had from the certainty. JFK assassination is probably the best example. The theta/time decay has all evaporated on the political gain from the conspiracy so that no longer matters.

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