Direct the Patent Office to Cease Issuing Software Patents • Hacker News Board

Re: Direct the Patent Office to Cease Issuing Software Patents

#41

Post by NormM » Sat, Sep 24, 2011, 6:54 PM UTC

perlgeek wrote: post #30

NormM wrote: post #14

Since there are trillions of dollars worth of software patents out there, most owned by US companies, this doesn't seem like a good way to proceed even if it were legal. You might be able to stop future applications for software patents. But really there's no bright line between software and hardware anymore -- you really need to reform the entire patent system.

What makes you think software patents are worth trillions of dollar, and how do you define "worth"? I'd guess that for the economy as a whole, the combined worth of software patents is negative.

I agree their economic value is probably negative, but because of the broken patent laws companies currently need them. Since companies like Google and Apple have recently spent billions of dollars to buy relatively small collections of patents, the entire existing pool would probably cost a few trillion to buy. It's really not a good idea to make laws that cause companies to spend this much money, and then declare their value to be zero. It's also probably not legal.

Re: Direct the Patent Office to Cease Issuing Software Patents

#42

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Sep 24, 2011, 9:39 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #40

rbanffy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand, but, still, the language in the first paragraph is contradictory. "The patent office's original interpretation of software as language and therefor patentable" states the original interpretation of the USPTO is that language is patentable. A petition like this should not allow the slightest amount of confusion.

This would be one of the reasons why the language needs to be fixed. I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of those who signed what it was asking. And the new language just removes my messy "let's-just-throw-text-in-this-textbox" crap.

Indeed, but people already signed the petition. I understand most probably nobody who signed it understood your intentions, but, still, it's now a signed document.

BTW, congratulations on the idea.

Re: Direct the Patent Office to Cease Issuing Software Patents

#43

Post by wnight » Sat, Sep 24, 2011, 9:44 PM UTC

dsl wrote: post #29

mythz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a good software patent the world can't live without?

I'll quote PG himself: "One thing I do feel pretty certain of is that if you're against software patents, you're against patents in general. Gradually our machines consist more and more of software. Things that used to be done with levers and cams and gears are now done with loops and trees and closures. There's nothing special about physical embodiments of control systems that should make them patentable, and the so…

PG is right about there being no strong line between software and hardware. What's wrong is assuming that means we need patents at all.

Like all government granted monopoly they're harmful to society. Engineers are instructed to avoid looking at patents. What was supposed to be a cookbook of methods for society is really a minefield you must traverse blindfolded lest you risk having three times as many legs blown off.

Re: Direct the Patent Office to Cease Issuing Software Patents

#44

Post by wnight » Sat, Sep 24, 2011, 11:21 PM UTC

hugh3 wrote: post #37

vadiml wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. The people who are against software patents are simply convinced that they (software patents) stiffling innovation.

It's not clear to me where the line between "software patents" and "other patents" exists, or why that should be a bright line. And even if you could convince me that patents in field X (say, patents for mining machinery) were (at present) holding back rather than encouraging innovation in that field, this might not be a convincing argument anyway. I think government should treat all industries equally unless there's…

> And even if you could convince me

What evidence have you heard that patents actually help?

> that patents in field X (say, patents for mining machinery) were (at present) holding back rather than encouraging innovation in that field, this might not be a convincing argument anyway.

Wow, that's harsh. "These arbitrary rules against redheads are ruining Ireland but at least we're enforcing the rule evenly across countries."

Re: Direct the Patent Office to Cease Issuing Software Patents

#45

Post by lmeckler » Mon, Sep 26, 2011, 5:26 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #20

Yes, this is a dupe from earlier today. I posted the damned thing by accident while learning the system in a half awake stupor. And, because I was in an half awake stupor, decided it was a good idea to share it with the world after accidentally posting it. I've been trying to get them to take it down to no avail. Failing that I've suggested better language and asked other people to suggest better language. On Monday…

Hi, I'm a reporter for the Wall Street Journal and I'm very interested in talking to you about this. Can you email me? Best, Laura Meckler laura.meckler@wsj.com