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You can change your number

signal.org

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Re: You can change your number

#41

Post by jessriedel »

not2b wrote: post #36
jessriedel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, it seems like this is the most information they could give you without violating the addressee's privacy by revealing whether they have uninstalled the app. I suppose it could be worth it if, when the message remains undelivered for a while, Signal added an explicit note to that effect so the sender doesn't misunderstand.

How can they tell that a user has uninstalled the app? Does uninstalling send a notification to signal.org?

I dunno. It's true they might not even have that information.

Re: You can change your number

#42

Post by dang »

nsajko wrote: post #11
SecurityLagoon wrote: post #6

Can people please choose an appropriate title when posting. "You can change your number" makes sense in the context of signal.org but makes little sense on the front page of HN. The RSS feed doesn't even include the domain for context.

HN guidelines forbid changing the title. I proposed changing this once, but the post didn't get traction. There was more traction for that years ago though. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26300126

> HN guidelines do not forbid changing the title.

It's more nuanced than that. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."

Re: You can change your number

#43

Post by caslon »

charcircuit wrote: post #37
tptacek wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're great compared to the alternative of simply storing a plaintext register of every pair of communicating parties on the server, which is how other messengers work. What's "good" about phone numbers is that they're tied clientside to a "buddy list" that everyone already keeps --- their contact list. They don't want phone numbers on the merits of phone numbers.

I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.

Discord keeps your friend information on their servers. This is, like tptacek said, exactly what Signal is trying to prevent. If servers get seized by the Feds, they don't want to needlessly reveal who's contacting who for everyone.

It's about storing as little personal information as they can.

Re: You can change your number

#44

Post by bogota »

charcircuit wrote: post #37
tptacek wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're great compared to the alternative of simply storing a plaintext register of every pair of communicating parties on the server, which is how other messengers work. What's "good" about phone numbers is that they're tied clientside to a "buddy list" that everyone already keeps --- their contact list. They don't want phone numbers on the merits of phone numbers.

I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.

I can assure you that most people do use phone contact lists for their intended purpose. I’m not sure what your comment is trying to get at other than being argumentative for whatever reason.

Re: You can change your number

#45

Post by yusmary »

All that is cool, but I don't want Signal to advertise my presence to anybody that has my phone number when I first log in after a fresh install.

I have only a handful of people that know and we negotiated that face to face prior, Signal breaks that trust

Re: You can change your number

#46

Post by bmarquez »

not2b wrote: post #36
jessriedel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, it seems like this is the most information they could give you without violating the addressee's privacy by revealing whether they have uninstalled the app. I suppose it could be worth it if, when the message remains undelivered for a while, Signal added an explicit note to that effect so the sender doesn't misunderstand.

How can they tell that a user has uninstalled the app? Does uninstalling send a notification to signal.org?

Uninstalling doesn't send a notification to signal.org, I've previously messaged a few people without getting a response, later realizing they never got it because they switched phones and stopped using Signal without pressing the "Delete Account" button in Signal settings. The workaround is to have the user install+register again, then press delete.

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007061192-De...

> Signal must be actively working on your phone to make changes to the account. Register to see these options for your number. Deletion requests are not accepted outside of the registered app because there is no way to accurately verify whether or not a number is truly associated with the requester.

Re: You can change your number

#48

Post by dang »

saurik wrote: post #12
SecurityLagoon wrote: post #6

Can people please choose an appropriate title when posting. "You can change your number" makes sense in the context of signal.org but makes little sense on the front page of HN. The RSS feed doesn't even include the domain for context.

This website has an extremely awkward policy about titles that makes it so if you don't use the original title people get angry. The policy though just doesn't make sense, sadly, as the concept of titles is audience-specific (and even movies or books, which might feel more organized, sometimes have different audiences in different markets). FWIW, I did connect it together as I saw "(signal.org)" and that was sufficie…

It feels like the policy doesn't make sense because people only notice the cases they don't like. The cases where it works just fine, which are the vast majority, go unnoticed. That's by design, because it keeps things relatively smooth and happy, but it has this weird side effect that the annoyance cases build up like mercury in the 'policy' corner of the brain.

Worst yet, the title edits that would annoy people if HN had a different policy (and they would be legion) go uncounted because we don't allow them to happen in the first place. Such a regime would be much less smooth, because for each title edit you (i.e. anyone) happened to agree with, there would be a lot more rubbing you the wrong way.

The fundamental principle here is that on HN, being the one to submit an article confers no special right to interpret or frame it for others. We want the articles to speak for themselves, and we want the front page to be as accurate and neutral as possible ('bookish', to use PG's old word for this). Misleading titles and clickbait titles get in the way of that, so the HN guidelines ask submitters to change those. Otherwise not.

Threads are so sensitive to initial conditions that the power to rewrite a title is literally the power to reframe the entire discussion, and therefore control it. On HN, we want the author of the article (or creator of a project) to have that power, not the submitter. That really is fundamental—it's the reason why HN's front page is the way it is, and therefore the reason why HN is the way it is. To change it would be to mess with the DNA of this place and would soon lead to a completely different forum. Maybe a good forum, but not the kind that HN is trying to be.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: You can change your number

#50

Post by colordrops »

shishy wrote: post #26
usea wrote: post #8

How can I use this without a phone or phone number at all? If I am concerned about privacy, why would I give them that access and information when it's not necessary for the service? Surely they are only trying to gather information on their users. Whether it's being sold, breached, or used for ad targeting, I am not interested. It comes across as a scam. I cannot take seriously any claims made by the company or its…

I don't think it's so nefarious... phone numbers were just the easiest way for them to create a portable social graph without requiring users to re-discover if anything changed. Plus, it looks like this move is going to push them in a direction where phone numbers won't be required (as they've indicated previously is in the works).

Ok, but now that it's not tied to phone numbers anymore why do you still need one to sign up?

And why has this been "in the works" for years? It's certainly not that hard to implement. Many less capable and mature messengers work without a phone number.

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