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Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

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Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#41

Post by nikanj »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #26
yosito wrote: post #14

As a nomad, and someone who's traveled to 40 countries and speaks 3 languages, I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. I think trying to make all passports equal is the wrong solution. Passports are issued by the authority of a country, and not all countries have equal authority on the world stage. UN issued passports might be a pos…

> I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. The European Union exists. It's pretty cool. Go anywhere, no password required.

For some low values of anywhere, anyway. Being able to travel between the member states of the union is nice, but not very different from what USA citizens enjoy w.r.t free travel between states.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#42

Post by Fnoord »

Countries are sovereign, and they decide who they allow to pass in (and even out!) or not. The COVID-19 crisis underlined this even more. If you want to live with little to no restraints in a foreign country, become a (good) diplomat/spy. Which is limited by supply (and kind of like a tradeoff with the target country).

Yes, ideally, this world would be a peaceful place, with no military, no terrorists, no dangers, no security risks, no blackhats, no drug addicts, no gangs, no children military or selling drugs, (screw all that just no crime/violence flowerpower & peace sign) etc etc. But in the real world, all of this exists, and a whole lot more. That's why not everyone's allowed. Then there's the economic difference between countries, and power differences. The rich countries want to stay ahead of the curve, and the poor countries want to step up. Any propaganda to reach the goal is warranted. China uses different techniques than USA or EU. Much more authoritarian, for starters. Remember what I said about diplomats/spies? Your proposal would open the floodgates.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#43

Post by YEwSdObPQT »

Majestic121 wrote: post #32
mcv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you still need to have a passport, it just won't be checked by anyone. Unless you get arrested, probably.

If you're a EU citizen, all you need is a valid ID, which you are required to have on you even in your own country anyway.

The idea that you would be required to have ID in your own country is horrid. In the UK you are not required to have any identification on you.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#44

Post by [deleted] »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #26
yosito wrote: post #14

As a nomad, and someone who's traveled to 40 countries and speaks 3 languages, I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. I think trying to make all passports equal is the wrong solution. Passports are issued by the authority of a country, and not all countries have equal authority on the world stage. UN issued passports might be a pos…

> I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. The European Union exists. It's pretty cool. Go anywhere, no password required.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#46

Post by zeckalpha »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #26
yosito wrote: post #14

As a nomad, and someone who's traveled to 40 countries and speaks 3 languages, I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. I think trying to make all passports equal is the wrong solution. Passports are issued by the authority of a country, and not all countries have equal authority on the world stage. UN issued passports might be a pos…

> I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. The European Union exists. It's pretty cool. Go anywhere, no password required.

Not completely true. You are thinking of the Schengen Area. Ireland for example requires a passport when arriving from elsewhere in the EU, but is part of the EU.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#47

Post by VictorPath »

yosito wrote: post #14

As a nomad, and someone who's traveled to 40 countries and speaks 3 languages, I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. I think trying to make all passports equal is the wrong solution. Passports are issued by the authority of a country, and not all countries have equal authority on the world stage. UN issued passports might be a pos…

> The truth is, the world is not an equal place. Never has been, and never will be.

From the time of the cave paintings and Venus figurines 50,000 years ago (and before that) until 10,000 years ago, there is no evidence of inequality, class society or surplus production anywhere. Nor today in the few remaining hunter gatherer bands in the world today.

2000 years ago travel 100km north of modern Stockholm and you found a completely egalitarian society.

Your history is wrong which does not say much for your prediction.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#48

Post by mcv »

tjansen wrote: post #34
mcv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you still need to have a passport, it just won't be checked by anyone. Unless you get arrested, probably.

No, but you need an identity card (which looks pretty much like a drivers license). Unlike passports, every citizen has one.

That's simply not true. The only identity card I have is a passport.

I actually thought the big advantage of id cards over passports was that they would be much cheaper or free, but I just checked, and in Netherland they're only slightly cheaper. It's effectively just a form of limited passport.

And clearly not everybody has an id card. It's just that everybody has to have a form of id, which is either a passport or an id card. People with a passport don't need to also have an id card.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#49

Post by j7ake »

I think one can look at the EU as an experiment of what happens with passport equality.

You have countries ranging from Croatia, Poland to Germany and Norway under one common passport.

Then you can ask specific questions like whether Germany and Norway has deteriorated by its influx of people from poor EU countries speaking destroying its way of life.

It seems to me that the EU experiment shows it’s possible to have passport equality without some downward slide to chaos.

One interesting side effect of the EU experiment is how quickly public views EU as a homogeneous block. While in reality the cultural differences between Netherlands and Croatia is probably larger than the difference between France and Morocco.

Re: Ask HN: Does the world need a “passport equality” movement?

#50

Post by rndgermandude »

YEwSdObPQT wrote: post #43
Majestic121 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a EU citizen, all you need is a valid ID, which you are required to have on you even in your own country anyway.

The idea that you would be required to have ID in your own country is horrid. In the UK you are not required to have any identification on you.

Why is it horrid? I am genuinely asking.

As I understand it, you still need to identify yourself in countries without such an id, like the US or UK, for a lot of reasons, like when opening bank accounts, interacting with the state, etc. But without a national id card, this can become complicated, and these countries often use a lot of defacto ids "replacements" like birth certificates, driver's licenses and so on, which increases the bureaucracy for citizens/customers and potential for fraud.

So while I see a lot of pros about national ids, what's the "horrid" drawback of ids?

(I am from a country with national id, Germany)

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