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App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

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Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#41

Post by panzagl »

ribosometronome wrote: post #23
jliptzin wrote: post #7

Surprised it took this long. If they would have taken a more reasonable 5-10% of developer earnings they’d still collect billions upon billions in rent while not angering millions of developers and lawmakers writing this legislation. Or at least charge a tiered annual publication fee plus payment processing fees. But greed got the best of them. Their fees are akin to a shopping mall owner taking 30% of store revenues…

>Oh and by the way, there’s no other malls in town to move your business to. I mean, given that this bill is targeting two companies, I'm not sure your analogy holds. There clearly is another mall you could move to. You just wouldn't get the patrons at the other mall. And they charge the same and always have. And, your business doesn't even have to be located in the mall if you think the fees are unreasonable. You ju…

The analogy is saying there are malls in two different towns- there's only one mall in Androidville, and if I want to go to the one in Appletown I have to sell my house and all the stuff I bought at the Androidville mall and move there. Trying to argue its not a monopoly is engaging in the worst type of pointless semantic argument.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#42

Post by irrational »

pornel wrote: post #36
irrational wrote: post #22

> New rules could require them both to allow app side-loading — installing apps from non-sanctioned marketplaces — and alternative payment processing systems. Apple and Google have argued vehemently against the bill. Why is Google against side-loading? It is already possible to side-load on Android devices, what is their argument?

Mobile app stores are a duopoly, so Google can charge as much as Apple charges.

But, isn't this trying to close the barn doors after the horses are already out? Side loading is already here and there are already multiple app stores:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Android_app_stores

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#43

Post by scarface74 »

realusername wrote: post #15
scarface74 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a lot easier to track your usage across websites than it is across apps.

No it's not, phones have unique identifiers, easier hardware access, poor cross-apps sandboxing capabilities, they also have no private mode, don't support adblocking & tracking blocking... There's a reason everybody nags you to install their apps on every website.

- you can’t access the unique identifier on iPhones as an app developer. Apple blocked that years ago.

- if you have found away to get around iOS’s sandboxing, you could collect a bug bounty

- ad blocking doesn’t work well or at all for first party ads like FB, Reddit and Twitter use.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#44

Post by scarface74 »

JaimeThompson wrote: post #18
scarface74 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic also perfectly demonstrated the security issues involved. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/just-as-critics-feared-fort...

Apple also perfectly demonstrated even more worrisome security issues https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30192743

Would you trust Apple to patch security fixes and distribute it as soon as they know or a random third party developer?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#45

Post by Zak »

irrational wrote: post #22

> New rules could require them both to allow app side-loading — installing apps from non-sanctioned marketplaces — and alternative payment processing systems. Apple and Google have argued vehemently against the bill. Why is Google against side-loading? It is already possible to side-load on Android devices, what is their argument?

I don't think Google is against sideloading since Android supports it by default.

I think Google is against being required to allow third-party app stores to have feature parity with its own, and against being required to allow third-party payments in apps purchased from the Play store. Those things would reduce Google's revenue.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#46

Post by nexuist »

grishka wrote: post #20
ADent wrote: post #16

Does this apply to XBox and PlayStation?

Those aren't general-purpose devices. You can't even get official SDKs unless you're a game studio.

Is that fair? Why can't you develop software for the hardware you purchased? How is that different from the argument against Apple's App Store?

> Those aren't general-purpose devices

So if Apple sold an "iPad Gaming Edition" then none of this would matter?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#47

Post by panzagl »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

As an Apple user, I kind of view the App Store as a kind of collective bargaining with app developers. If you want to have access to Apple Users you need to adhere to certain standards. The plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Apple are some of the scummiest companies and their software is full of dark patterns. Apple’s App Store does a lot to protect me. I guess I view this bill much as a union member might view a “Rig…

Collective bargaining involves two parties, one representing the 'collective'. App stores are more at-will: 'my way or the highway'.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#48

Post by JanSt »

zepto wrote: post #31
JanSt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone would be glad if Apple and Google would drastically drop their cut to 5%-7%. They basically take a risk free 15-30% stake in revenues (!) of many companies that serve users on mobile devices.

Well then that’s what the bill should say.

Law is not about making people happy

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#49

Post by nightski »

zepto wrote: post #30
keleftheriou wrote: post #27

Great news. Apple has turned the magic of software development from “how cool would this be?” to “how cool would Apple be with this?” That’s an environment of software suppression instead of free innovation, and Apple has felt little pressure to change. For anyone concerned about the security and privacy implications, don’t fall for the misconceptions perpetuated by Apple: non-App Store apps will still be sandboxed (…

Quoted post unavailable.

That is rather reductionist. Users care about lots of things including the hardware itself, the camera, battery life, etc...

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#50

Post by realusername »

scarface74 wrote: post #43
realusername wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not, phones have unique identifiers, easier hardware access, poor cross-apps sandboxing capabilities, they also have no private mode, don't support adblocking & tracking blocking... There's a reason everybody nags you to install their apps on every website.

- you can’t access the unique identifier on iPhones as an app developer. Apple blocked that years ago. - if you have found away to get around iOS’s sandboxing, you could collect a bug bounty - ad blocking doesn’t work well or at all for first party ads like FB, Reddit and Twitter use.

> - you can’t access the unique identifier on iPhones as an app developer. Apple blocked that years ago.

There's an advertising id built-in into the device... Just the thought of that on a browser would make everybody scream.

> - if you have found away to get around iOS’s ssndboxing, you could collect a bug bounty

https://developers.facebook.com/docs/marketing-api/conversio...

> - ad blocking doesn’t work well or at all for first party ads like FB, Reddit and Twitter use.

For now, only Facebook is resisting on it's own website with some obfuscation but I have no doubt that new browser apis will close that gap. For Facebook tracking on external websites it does work though, something I can't say exists at the moment in the mobile world.

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