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Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

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41–50 of 71 posts

Re: Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

#41
post #3

My impression of these services are that they are simply available so people can feel they have "done something" about someone who seems suicidal by giving them the number, then wash their hands of the rest of it. Not that someone else's mental health puts any particular obligation on you, but that's the dynamic I see play out. I've called these services twice over the years when I was young and naive and had friends…

OP's hot take isn't reality. Worked at a suicide hotline for a year.

The fundamental purpose of suicide hotlines is to take burden off emergency services, and to give folks a coping mechanism which doesn't involve 911.

90% of callers are frequent fliers, calling weekly to daily. In the year I worked there I only had 2-3 calls which required serious treatment.

Re: Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scary isn't it. People used to think sexual desire in women was a 'mental illness'. I wonder what we're committing people for today that will embarrass us in the future.

Incarceration over cannabis is already seen as embarrassing. Mental health care overall, but especially drug addiction will be looked at as positively medieval. The barriers to treatment for ADHD. The disastrous state of treatment for people, but especially women with autism. Hell, the way women are treated by some mental health professionals, it might as well still be the dark ages where hysteria was considered a va…

> The barriers to treatment for ADHD. The disastrous state of treatment for people, but especially women with autism.

I'm going to put "treatment" in huge quotes. Do these people need treatment or do they need society to stop bothering them and accept them the way they are?

Re: Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

#44
post #30
post #3

My impression of these services are that they are simply available so people can feel they have "done something" about someone who seems suicidal by giving them the number, then wash their hands of the rest of it. Not that someone else's mental health puts any particular obligation on you, but that's the dynamic I see play out. I've called these services twice over the years when I was young and naive and had friends…

I'm sorry to hear you had these shitty experiences :( FWIW, I agree with some others who say that it differs between hotlines and it does depend. I volunteer at one (working at software doesn't provide enough meaning as far as activities go, and this does, as a side thing), and we are very strict about not forcing advice (or rescue) on anyone. (I had to go through multi-month trainings, practice, then supervision etc…

I had a whole rant on hotlines, but I honestly didn’t know there were good ones. No one in my support group had a positive story about hotlines.

I am extremely glad good ones exist. If you have a list, I’ll share it with my support group.

Edit: removed my horror story… we don’t need another one on this thread.

Re: Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

#45
post #3

My impression of these services are that they are simply available so people can feel they have "done something" about someone who seems suicidal by giving them the number, then wash their hands of the rest of it. Not that someone else's mental health puts any particular obligation on you, but that's the dynamic I see play out. I've called these services twice over the years when I was young and naive and had friends…

I don't often find people able to articulate their views on the suicide topic, and also aren't comfortable talking about it.

The best thing I've heard though is that there is a large subset of suicides that are spur of the moment decisions. And so an option like a suicide prevention hotline is to serve as a distraction and circuit breaker to get the afflicted human onto something else. That also means there is no use case where you call the hotline on someone's behalf.

Re: Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

#46
post #41
post #3

My impression of these services are that they are simply available so people can feel they have "done something" about someone who seems suicidal by giving them the number, then wash their hands of the rest of it. Not that someone else's mental health puts any particular obligation on you, but that's the dynamic I see play out. I've called these services twice over the years when I was young and naive and had friends…

OP's hot take isn't reality. Worked at a suicide hotline for a year. The fundamental purpose of suicide hotlines is to take burden off emergency services, and to give folks a coping mechanism which doesn't involve 911. 90% of callers are frequent fliers, calling weekly to daily. In the year I worked there I only had 2-3 calls which required serious treatment.

that doesn't mean it is invalid either.

Re: Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

#49
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plenty of places will forcibly admit you (at huge costs) if they see you as a suicide risk How's that legally done? Is suicide even a crime in most countries? I don't think it is.

Not most countries, but it is illegal in some... see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation In NZ I do know the cops like to kick you when you're down. Let's say you've climbed a scaffold that's around a building and you want to jump but you are saved (as you had been on the phone with a suicide help line, and they passed the details to the Police), you get done with a trespass charge and can be convicted…

Many cultures have a long, ingrained history of making suicidal people's lives intentionally worse as a misguided attempt to discourage suicides. A book that discusses this phenomenon that I found helpful was Al Alvarez' book "The Savage God"; Alvarez was a friend of Sylvia Path, who felt compelled to explore the issue in terms of the narratives we tell ourselves and each other about it.

In Western Christian countries, there are recorded cases of people who attempted suicide unsuccessfully being brought before the court, convicted, and sentenced to death by hanging. Reality here seems more like an extremely dark monty python sketch.

Some Western cultures also buried victims of suicide at public crossroads, a little like the bodies of murderers would be intentionally made spectacles. One view of this an explicit attempt to make it harder for their spirits to find their eternal resting places.

I cannot recall if it was in Alvarez' book where I learned it, but in my research I gathered that among some Iwi (Maori tribes) there was a culture of burying members who had killed themselves just outside the walls of their Marae (Meeting-house grounds), where their resting places would be trampled over as a sign of disrespect and societal rejection.

Even today, we see something of this view in institutions like universities etc, whose response to suicidal issues is often one that makes that persons life harder, eg communicating to a suicidal student that any further attempt on their life will result in them being expelled from their study program. I feel like for people on the receiving end, the 'message' being communicated here is one of rejection, and the threat of humiliation following any subsequent unsuccessful attempt.

Re: Suicide hotline shares data with for-profit spinoff, raising ethical questions

#50
Since when did making profits become unethical? What is unethical is giving away traceable customer information like phone numbers or locations of the texts. I certainly hope all that data is stripped. Otherwise then yeah it's unethical
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