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The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

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Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#41
post #38
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason to read Wikipedia via https: ISP can otherwise inject ads or even change the page. This has actually happened.

That's not a good reason to take away my choice, and rob me of the opportunity to access this information on an older device if I wanted to.

Proxies like WeBone can solve that.

https://github.com/atauenis/webone

I use it for a solaris install.

https://smackeyacky.blogspot.com/2021/10/hacker-news-in-hotj...

Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#42
post #15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a TRS-80 from 1984 and it still works fine, that's pushing 40 years and I have zero doubt I'll still be able to use it in another ~10.

What can it do?

With the right peripherals, a lot. On my 1980 TRS-80 Color Computer I can write documents and save them to tape, print them, or send the text over serial to a modern computer. (It can also function as a serial terminal, but that's kind of cheating.) It boots to BASIC, no disks required (but can run a version of DOS if a drive is present). There's some early database/PIM software, home automation controllers, graphics tablets, and of course games.

With full access to the serial and joystick ports, it's essentially able to function as a microcontroller, though I'll admit I mostly just use mine for writing, drawing, and games.

Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#43
post #9

> For most typewriters, restoration is only a matter of taking the time to do it. There’s no complex skills or tools involved. Even the most difficult operations could be learned alone, by simple trial and error. What. Let's say an internal piece failed because of mechanical stress caused by lack of lubrication or a jammed foreign object. How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it fa…

Mechanical precision tooling is cheap enough nowadays that the hard part of producing a replacement piece is probably creating a CAD file for it. You can then ship the CAD file to some maker somewhere and have a replacement piece delivered to you for a reasonable fee. That's a lot harder to do with microchips.

Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#44

The major problem I see with this is that while the computer itself might still boot, the world around it will have changed so radically it will effectively be useless. You can see this with machines much younger than 50 years, they can't support the encryption required by most modern websites, interfaces age out of regular use: used a 24 pin parallel port lately? How about a modem? Even software with long support fo…

I'm working on building computers designed to last longer than 50 years. They are primarily for the sort of timeless applications mentioned in the article. It's hard to imagine what people will be doing 50 years in the future, but it's not so difficult to see what people were doing 50 years ago that they're still doing today.

Transferring data off the computers won't be a problem in the future, if people are still interested there will be adapters and interface modules available, or you can make your own because of the open-source hardware, software and documentation. The software won't need to be updated because it won't need to run the latest version of everything.

There will be some advantages to using simpler and less capable computers for certain tasks, but most people will still need a modern computer for doing things like paying taxes and viewing advertisements.

Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#46
post #38
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason to read Wikipedia via https: ISP can otherwise inject ads or even change the page. This has actually happened.

That's not a good reason to take away my choice, and rob me of the opportunity to access this information on an older device if I wanted to.

Nobody took away your choice. You just need to implement/find SSL for that older device.

Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#47
post #9

> For most typewriters, restoration is only a matter of taking the time to do it. There’s no complex skills or tools involved. Even the most difficult operations could be learned alone, by simple trial and error. What. Let's say an internal piece failed because of mechanical stress caused by lack of lubrication or a jammed foreign object. How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it fa…

> no mention of why you'd want to do this

In the introduction, OP says: "Well, given how we use the resources of our planet, the question is not if we could or not. We need to do it, no matter what." I tend to believe he is right about that.

Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#49
post #5

Right now, I don’t see how a general purpose computer could last 50 years. The article refers to it being modular, but you’d have to replace so many parts… would it still be the same computer?

The MNT Reform [1] is an attempt at this. All parts replaceable and upgradable, with full schematics and design docs available when possible. I can’t find the exact quote, but the SoC and batteries were chosen because they are expected to still be manufactured 30 years out. Obvious drawbacks are compared to other laptops it’s under powered, bulky, and expensive, but as one review pointed out, “This is the laptop you'…

NXP claims 15 years of longevity for their i.MX8 family. That's not bad, although I don't know what it means in practice (there are many chips that are effectively obsolete but you could still buy them as long as your order quantity is in the tens of thousands at least).

I would not expect the SoC to be available in 30 years, but it's impossible to say for sure. Of course, for the SoM you need other parts as well (LPDDR4).

Re: The computer built to last 50 years (2021)

#50
post #9

> For most typewriters, restoration is only a matter of taking the time to do it. There’s no complex skills or tools involved. Even the most difficult operations could be learned alone, by simple trial and error. What. Let's say an internal piece failed because of mechanical stress caused by lack of lubrication or a jammed foreign object. How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it fa…

>How do you figure out "by simple trial and error" which piece failed, why it failed, what the original piece was supposed to look like, and finally repair it, without expert knowledge and precision tools?

For a typewriter? It's not even a challenge, 14 year olds have done bigger projects in their garages. And not even particularly bright 14 year olds - and not even today, with fast access to all kinds of information, schematics and such.

Typewriters? Teenagers have been fixing electronic devices, building custom radios, amplifiers, circuits, and such for over 60 years - with "look at the shelves at Radio Shack" level of availability (and much worse in developing countries).

I've fixed MIDI equipment on my own when I was 14, and I was hardly that bright or familiar with electronics and soldering guns, or had access to the (then non-existing) web. And to be frank, I've never bothered to delve into electronics even later (though I did had some engineering classes at uni).

>At a wild guess I'd expect it'd take me a few years to do this reliably

You overblow what should be a couple of weeks or a month at most, and that's for someone mechanics-inept.

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