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Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

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Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#41

Post by soco »

mikestew wrote: post #33

The "public health nightmare" is that such a thing is so easily faked, on top of the fact that no one looks anyway. Has anyone ever seen a QR code being scanned? No? Just wave a screenshot of your friend's digital vaccination record? Yeah, that works. Why even bother with fake cardboard representations? Post that screenshot (with the QR code replaced by a rickroll URL) to your Telegram channel, sorted. But just now w…

In Switzerland and Italy I've had mine scanned pretty much everywhere I went. So I wouldn't generalize.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#42

Post by codyb »

hammock wrote: post #2

Is it really a public health nightmare? What data is there to show that vaccine passports are effective at reducing spread or hospitalizations?

I for one really enjoy the vaccine mandate in NYC. I feel much more comfortable knowing that if I catch it going out (seems likely), I'll be unlikely to spread it to anyone unvaccinated causing serious disease.

Of course I'm also boosted and got my flu shot (and do it every year), so I'm probably already more conscientious living in NYC than many.

If someone uses a fake to get in... well... there's only so much I can do, but I discourage it for their own health and for the health of others around them. I flat out told my friend who did the same as such.

I'm sure he'd get through it, but why get mega sick instead of getting the vaccine at this point?

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#44

Post by awd »

cute_boi wrote: post #13
ukie wrote: post #3

Good. People have a right to be free.

Well depends what you call free. If we can end pandemic, we don't have to wear masks, no more boosters. That would be ideal freedom right? But not vaccinating, thinking one can outsmart public health officials, being intolerant is apparently not a freedom to me.

And, after some countries are now on their 4th boosters (Edit: shot, not booster), and my country being about halfway done with their third round, are we slowly stamping out the virus?

Personally I feel lied to and misled, the messaging from the government where I am from was far from what one would call nuanced and informed. The short story is that they promised: "If you take your shots, then we'll get out of this mess". Even now, a propaganda ad that states: "We don't want you to take a booster to make things impossible, we want you to take your booster to make things possible again". Even though it's abundantly clear that people are getting reinfected and spreading Omicron, booster or no booster.

From my perspective we're kidding ourselves that we can get a handle on this disease without permanently going in and out of lockdowns. In my county we stamped out the virus at least twice before (stamped out going to < 20 cases per day, some cities without for months). And then it comes back. Well I'm done locking down, and I think this is a consistent, fair standpoint to take. I don't want to have to identify myself and my status to enter the store or public life. People get sick, people die, everyone will get omicron, or something similar, eventually.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#45

Post by tremon »

torstenvl wrote: post #19
cute_boi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a common knowledge, assuming vaccination means less hospitalization. So, why do we even need data in such case? Vaccine passports somehow forces or incentivizes people to vaccinate more?

No. Requiring vaccine passports or vaccine cards incentivizes people to get vaccine passports and/or vaccine cards , which is exactly what we're seeing. This is like counting lines of code or repo commits to see how productive a SWE is. If you want to incentivize X , you have to be very careful not to instead incentivize an imperfect proxy for X .

What realistic alternative do you propose? I don't think injecting everyone with a microdose of Covid before entering and then measuring the immune response scales very well, nor can be performed by regular bouncers/doormen/wait staff.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#46

Post by badtoro »

cute_boi wrote: post #8
hammock wrote: post #2

Is it really a public health nightmare? What data is there to show that vaccine passports are effective at reducing spread or hospitalizations?

Isn't that a common knowledge, assuming vaccination means less hospitalization. So, why do we even need data in such case? Vaccine passports somehow forces or incentivizes people to vaccinate more?

It is a common and well documented knowledge that obesity and alcohol use increase hospitalizations. Do you propose fitness and sobriety passports to incentivize healthier life styles?

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#48

Post by Axien »

codyb wrote: post #42
hammock wrote: post #2

Is it really a public health nightmare? What data is there to show that vaccine passports are effective at reducing spread or hospitalizations?

I for one really enjoy the vaccine mandate in NYC. I feel much more comfortable knowing that if I catch it going out (seems likely), I'll be unlikely to spread it to anyone unvaccinated causing serious disease. Of course I'm also boosted and got my flu shot (and do it every year), so I'm probably already more conscientious living in NYC than many. If someone uses a fake to get in... well... there's only so much I can…

So someone else’s freedoms should be limited so you can feel “comfortable”?

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#49

Post by TameAntelope »

torstenvl wrote: post #19
cute_boi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a common knowledge, assuming vaccination means less hospitalization. So, why do we even need data in such case? Vaccine passports somehow forces or incentivizes people to vaccinate more?

No. Requiring vaccine passports or vaccine cards incentivizes people to get vaccine passports and/or vaccine cards , which is exactly what we're seeing. This is like counting lines of code or repo commits to see how productive a SWE is. If you want to incentivize X , you have to be very careful not to instead incentivize an imperfect proxy for X .

Yeah, and the easiest way, by far, to get a vaccine passport/card is to get vaccinated...

Besides, people don't like to lie if they can avoid it. Being honest and getting a vaccine card by getting a vaccine is what most people will do.

If it's 10-12% such as the YouGov poll suggests, that feels in line with "Who are the assholes in our society?" Most people aren't like that.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#50

Post by buscoquadnary »

happytoexplain wrote: post #36
nvelty wrote: post #24

This is a direct result of the (intentionally) punitive nature of vaccine mandates. Broad, heavy-handed actions by the government are the classic spark for societal backlash. A softer approach that focused on positive benefits for having a vax pass versus punishing unvaxxed would probably had better results. Instead, we've pushed (presumably) otherwise law-abiding citizens into using forged documents. This directly u…

My observation is that the political polarization of the topic came before any government action, and is the more primary cause of the issue. Government action (both heavy-handed and otherwise) sparks backlash because of the political polarization.

Honestly I saw it the other way around, when it was first came out the future was uncertain, and there was a lot of confusion the only data we had was untrusted reports from China, I saw a lot of people band together, people looking out for on another general expressions of concern.

There were politics involved but it was relatively mild, and ignored by many people it was about two or three months in when much of the news around COVID changed to being news about how Trump was doing what about the virus, and congress what congress was saying about responses to the virus and the usual schlop I noticed things started to get polarized at the same time the estimates were being adjusted from 1-9% fatality rates to 0.3% fatality rates.

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