Arch Linux – "It is what you make it" • Hacker News Board

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#41

Post by SkyMarshal » Fri, Sep 16, 2011, 11:08 PM UTC

Adaptive wrote: post #5

I switched from Ubuntu to Arch on my servers and linux desktops a while back. Here's are the key benefits from my perspective: - shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces - pacman: outstanding package manager. - aif: dieter has done a great job making a modular install framework. - AUR: compared to PPAs, AUR is simple and easy to contribute to (both commentary and packages) It rea…

- shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces

How is that different than Ubuntu (or any other distro once you've used it enough)? (serious question, considering the same switch myself)

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#42

Post by spyrosk » Fri, Sep 16, 2011, 11:16 PM UTC

Adaptive wrote: post #14

alexis-d wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AUR is definitely one of the best thing for me, along with the rolling release scheme, the simplicity and the wiki. But you say you use it on your servers? I'm not sure I would do it because Arch doesn't focus on stablity like Debian does, and sometimes update to core packages can break other packages, so... Not a big deal on your own computer but on a server? I would be happy to know if you have good reasons to use…

I had precisely the same concerns. I first set up a basic webserver on Linode since they had images for Arch. I was skeptical particularly because I've screwed stuff up on Arch systems during an "aggressive" update. It's been rock solid and I deal with updates through a basic test methodology. I keep a mirror of the system on a VM and update that first. I am also very conservative about what packages I update. I'm on…

Could you please elaborate on how you created the mirror?

I have almost the same setup (Arch, Linode, nginx) and although my VPS has been rock solid so far, I would like to have something like this for testing purposes.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#43

Post by astine » Fri, Sep 16, 2011, 11:16 PM UTC

orblivion wrote: post #22

Adaptive wrote: post #5

I switched from Ubuntu to Arch on my servers and linux desktops a while back. Here's are the key benefits from my perspective: - shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces - pacman: outstanding package manager. - aif: dieter has done a great job making a modular install framework. - AUR: compared to PPAs, AUR is simple and easy to contribute to (both commentary and packages) It rea…

Can you explain to me what's so great about pacman? As of the last time I used Arch (a few years ago), you can't roll back to an old version unless it happens to be cached on your system. For a rolling release system it creates a lot of hassles. It seems like a very straightforward package manager, what does it have that apt doesn't have, for instance?

I think the draw of pacman is that it's really simple. (Actually that's the draw of Archlinux overall.) Pacman is fast, useful, and you can learn its feature set in ten minutes. Apt-Get is considerably more complex by comparison. Especially, and I think this is where pacman really shines, is making new packages. All it takes to build a pacman package is simple PKGBUILD file. This is analogous to a Gentoo ebuild but much simpler.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#44

Post by davidhollander » Fri, Sep 16, 2011, 11:32 PM UTC

skeptical wrote: post #36

Adaptive wrote: post #5

I switched from Ubuntu to Arch on my servers and linux desktops a while back. Here's are the key benefits from my perspective: - shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces - pacman: outstanding package manager. - aif: dieter has done a great job making a modular install framework. - AUR: compared to PPAs, AUR is simple and easy to contribute to (both commentary and packages) It rea…

"shallow mental model (...) It really does take time if you want to understand Arch deeply" You made me curious. Those sound like they are the opposite of each other. On the article... the same old. Not for me. I like learning, but not just anything. Learning how to use the configuration of dozens of software pieces is NOT on my to do list, specially when it's pretty obvious I won't have room on my mental memory for…

The "shallow mental model" most likely refers to fewer initialization files and locations. When starting out, most everything you need is in /etc/rc.conf . Also, Arch and its package manager don't use /usr/local/, instead simply using /usr.

"It really does take time" most likely refers to the fact that you are responsible for building up the OS yourself. So unlike in an OS like Ubuntu, where you do not have to know what a window manager is, or what an xorg xserver and client means, you'll have to learn it all along the way.

Fortunately the wiki makes figuring everything out managable, and I found it an enjoyable to spend a couple days with different software[1] and a programmable tiling window manager[2]. The end result is a fast-booting custom tailored system.

[1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lightweight_Application... [2] http://awesome.naquadah.org/

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#45

Post by nikron » Fri, Sep 16, 2011, 11:51 PM UTC

orblivion wrote: post #22

Adaptive wrote: post #5

I switched from Ubuntu to Arch on my servers and linux desktops a while back. Here's are the key benefits from my perspective: - shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces - pacman: outstanding package manager. - aif: dieter has done a great job making a modular install framework. - AUR: compared to PPAs, AUR is simple and easy to contribute to (both commentary and packages) It rea…

Can you explain to me what's so great about pacman? As of the last time I used Arch (a few years ago), you can't roll back to an old version unless it happens to be cached on your system. For a rolling release system it creates a lot of hassles. It seems like a very straightforward package manager, what does it have that apt doesn't have, for instance?

You still can't rollback without either having the package in your cache, or going to the source repo and grabbing the old PKGBUILD

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#46

Post by albertzeyer » Sat, Sep 17, 2011, 12:06 AM UTC

I never used Arch but I have used Gentoo for really long. Everything what I read about Arch sounded a bit primitive to me.

Are there any advantages of Arch over Gentoo?

Or are there good comparisons?

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#47

Post by LeafStorm » Sat, Sep 17, 2011, 12:36 AM UTC

The biggest draw of Arch for me is pacman. The system itself is incredibly simple (and incredibly fast), but more importantly, it's really easy to design and compile your own packages for it. To make a Debian package, you have to edit a bunch of control files, run a bunch of shell scripts, and then it packs all that up in some obscure cpio-based format.

With Arch, on the other hand, it's one program - makepkg - with only one or two "control files" (PKGBUILD and maybe an install script), and it generates a nice, easily-inspectable .pkg.tar.gz file. Plus you can find just about any package you could want in the AUR, and if not, you can find one that builds like it and then modify it to work with your package.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#48

Post by MatthewPhillips » Sat, Sep 17, 2011, 12:38 AM UTC

tmhedberg wrote: post #19

I've been using Arch as my primary OS for about 1.5 years and have no inclination whatsoever to move away from it. Like many people, I previously used Ubuntu, but grew fed up with the focus of their development efforts on areas which I considered to be inconsequential. Seeing the direction that Ubuntu has taken since then, I'm glad I made that decision when I did. For me, the best thing about Arch is simply how flexi…

What interface are you using? I use wmii on my arch boxes.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#49

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 17, 2011, 12:38 AM UTC

tmhedberg wrote: post #19

I've been using Arch as my primary OS for about 1.5 years and have no inclination whatsoever to move away from it. Like many people, I previously used Ubuntu, but grew fed up with the focus of their development efforts on areas which I considered to be inconsequential. Seeing the direction that Ubuntu has taken since then, I'm glad I made that decision when I did. For me, the best thing about Arch is simply how flexi…

[deleted]

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#50

Post by MatthewPhillips » Sat, Sep 17, 2011, 12:45 AM UTC

For those who've never used it. You know all of the "boilerplate" frameworks that have been hot recently? HTML5 Boilerplate is one, iOS Boilerplate is another... well Arch is the Linux Boilerplate if there ever was one. It gives you only the essentials that you need and leaves the rest up to you.