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Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

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Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#41

Post by sleightofmind »

pram wrote: post #13
steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

IMO anyone who is sympathetic to AR is doing a disservice by introducing her to people with Atlas. Fountainhead is far more entertaining, main character is better written, and it just gets the point across better. Atlas is a punchline for a reason.

Actually, her very first book, We the Living, is to me the best of the bunch. Because of its setting, it makes it very clear where Ayn's hatred of collectivism/socialism/communism comes from. Also, it tends to show rather than tell. Ayn was a hard woman. I do not idolize her, but knowing where she came from and what she suffered, which her first book makes clear, goes a long ways towards understanding just why she was so hard. And yeah, The Fountainhead is far better than Atlas Shrugged. An editor called upon to justify his existence, need only to point at Atlas Shrugged.

My favorite short book (non-fiction) covering from the last days the Tsars through the remainder of the Soviet period (the period that shaped Ayn) is A History of the Soviet Union from the Beginning to the End, by Peter Kenez.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#42

Post by croon »

defaultprimate wrote: post #40
pydry wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they're getting relatively poorer - having less access to housing, lower purchasing power, lesser access to medical care and are dying sooner (even before COVID). But that's a nice hypothetical you've got there.

Not according to the data. https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-that-the-poor-get-poorer-w...

That's not data, that's extremely bad propaganda.

Median wealth was the same in 1995 as it was in 2016 [0].

Median inflation adjusted household income was the same in 1974 as in 2016 [1]. If you go the full range it's gone from $54k to $67k between 1968 to 2021.

That is technically higher, but it's not CPI adjusted.

[0] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-...

[1] https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#43

Post by defaultprimate »

croon wrote: post #42
defaultprimate wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not according to the data. https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-that-the-poor-get-poorer-w...

That's not data, that's extremely bad propaganda. Median wealth was the same in 1995 as it was in 2016 [0]. Median inflation adjusted household income was the same in 1974 as in 2016 [1]. If you go the full range it's gone from $54k to $67k between 1968 to 2021. That is technically higher, but it's not CPI adjusted. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-... [1] https://dqydj.com/household-in…

There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data.

Learn these things before you try to engage in conversations about this topic:

The difference between income and total compensation.

The difference between income and wealth.

The dynamic nature of economic mobility over the course of someone's life. (Older people have more human capital and therefore more wealth).

Fun fact Denmark is one of the most wealth unequal countries.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#44

Post by croon »

defaultprimate wrote: post #43
croon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not data, that's extremely bad propaganda. Median wealth was the same in 1995 as it was in 2016 [0]. Median inflation adjusted household income was the same in 1974 as in 2016 [1]. If you go the full range it's gone from $54k to $67k between 1968 to 2021. That is technically higher, but it's not CPI adjusted. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-... [1] https://dqydj.com/household-in…

There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data. Learn these things before you try to engage in conversations about this topic: The difference between income and total compensation. The difference between income and wealth. The dynamic nature of economic mobility over the course of someone's life. (Older people have more human ca…

> There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data.

I clicked 10 or so citations that all went to the same guys blog where he at best had skewered pew research I sourced directly instead.

> Learn these things before you try to engage in conversations about this topic:

> The difference between income and total compensation.

If you have data on median compensation (outside of regular income) we can discuss it. It would however already be represented in wealth data, so it seems negligible.

> The difference between income and wealth.

Which is why I provided both.

> The dynamic nature of economic mobility over the course of someone's life. (Older people have more human capital and therefore more wealth).

How is this relevant to median income/wealth measured over time? It's not measuring one person's wealth growth, but a time series of snapshots of everyone's (meaning all ages).

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#45

Post by rascul »

defaultprimate wrote: post #43
croon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not data, that's extremely bad propaganda. Median wealth was the same in 1995 as it was in 2016 [0]. Median inflation adjusted household income was the same in 1974 as in 2016 [1]. If you go the full range it's gone from $54k to $67k between 1968 to 2021. That is technically higher, but it's not CPI adjusted. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-... [1] https://dqydj.com/household-in…

There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data. Learn these things before you try to engage in conversations about this topic: The difference between income and total compensation. The difference between income and wealth. The dynamic nature of economic mobility over the course of someone's life. (Older people have more human ca…

> There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data.

The author cites his own blog, which also cites his own blog. Almost all the citations in his blog are to his own blog. One single link in the article did not go to his own blog but instead went to a video at reason.com. This is not a pattern which gives confidence in the material.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#46

Post by invalidname »

steelstraw wrote: post #6

Relevant comment from John Carmack a couple weeks ago: Atlas Shrugged popped up in a trend, reminding me of the remarkable level of vitriol against it. It is obviously grinding an anti-collectivist axe, and it can fairly be called cartoonish, but if you can't see its archetypes in the world around you, you aren't paying attention. I can easily understand people not liking the book, but the level of loathing that some…

Respectfully, it's horrible writing. Literally no redeeming quality. The fact that it places people into cliche archetypes and misrepresents everything about them is the exact problem with the book.

If you see those archetypes around you then you seriously need to learn some empathy which Rand clearly lacked. Let me sum up the book: "There are people who are so smart, if they left the world would collapse and everyone will die. Let's do that."

The ego of thinking that the whole world depends on you and your big brain is something a lot of people in tech need to grow out of. It's toxic and so is Rand.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#48

Post by lern_too_spel »

steelstraw wrote: post #20
lern_too_spel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The level of vitriol is proportional to the harms. Ayn Rand's childish philosophy has adherents who have caused significant harm to society. Similarly, if Mein Kampf or Das Kapital had not gained a following, we might not have such vitriol for those books, and we might spend more time discussing if we see their archetypes in the world around us, but they did, and that discussion is rightly not as prominent as the cri…

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. How are you measuring the level of harm as a result of her books?

By looking at the policies implemented by her adherents.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#49

Post by defaultprimate »

croon wrote: post #44
defaultprimate wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data. Learn these things before you try to engage in conversations about this topic: The difference between income and total compensation. The difference between income and wealth. The dynamic nature of economic mobility over the course of someone's life. (Older people have more human ca…

> There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data. I clicked 10 or so citations that all went to the same guys blog where he at best had skewered pew research I sourced directly instead. > Learn these things before you try to engage in conversations about this topic: > The difference between income and total compensation. If you…

lol at thinking Daniel Mitchell is just a "guy"

>How is this relevant to median income/wealth measured over time?

Because the age and dominant generation of the population massively affects the median household wealth. It's why the median wealth of Japanese Americans is significantly higher than Hispanic Americans. The median age of the Japanese American population is almost double that of Hispanic Americans.

Re: Ayn Rand reviews children’s movies (2014)

#50

Post by defaultprimate »

rascul wrote: post #45
defaultprimate wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data. Learn these things before you try to engage in conversations about this topic: The difference between income and total compensation. The difference between income and wealth. The dynamic nature of economic mobility over the course of someone's life. (Older people have more human ca…

> There's these things called citations, there's tons of them throughout the piece, those pieces further cite primary sources for the data. The author cites his own blog, which also cites his own blog. Almost all the citations in his blog are to his own blog. One single link in the article did not go to his own blog but instead went to a video at reason.com. This is not a pattern which gives confidence in the materia…

First, Dan Mitchell is a primary source. Second, many of the pieces source BLS data or similar entities.
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