Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

instructables.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 112 posts

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#41

Post by aix1 »

gameswithgo wrote: post #31
trentnix wrote: post #18

This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for performance over distance. I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about to say ma…

The idea that fat efficiency can be improved via diet or training is often said, but the people I have known who both tried it and carefully measured it couldn’t. Also there are perfectly ordinary ways to figure out you need to eat more, Ive coached some pro cyclists and done a decent amount of my own triathlon and cycling adventures and if someone gave me a free vo2 machine I don’t think I would ever use it.

This is probably not exactly what you mean by diet, but Rob Gray (an Ultraman world champion) says:

in the 10 days before the race I would predominantly eat a high fat diet. Based on all the testing I’ve done, what you eat in this window has a large impact on how your body uses fat vs carb on race day

https://robgray.org/ironman-arizona-nutrition-report/

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#42

Post by novok »

hprotagonist wrote: post #37
Karunamon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I can accept that, especially with regard to items like hearing aids. There's a fundamental difference between things like implants and surgical tools and relatively simple devices like CPAP machines and hearing aids; things where the harm of a failure scenario is extremely limited. This is a government at the end of the day. It would be imprudent to not consider the effects of regulatory capture, crony…

do you have experience in the discipline? It doesn’t sound like you do. I have some experience, and i can think of about a half dozen ways cpap machines and hearing aids could cause serious harm as a result of design flaws or lack of QA that would be de rigeur if not for regulatory pressure.

So can headphones and earbuds, and society seems to do just fine with the normal level of consumer electronics regulation. Is there really value in the medical device regulations for hearing aids beyond that?

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#43

Post by [deleted] »

hprotagonist wrote: post #37
Karunamon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I can accept that, especially with regard to items like hearing aids. There's a fundamental difference between things like implants and surgical tools and relatively simple devices like CPAP machines and hearing aids; things where the harm of a failure scenario is extremely limited. This is a government at the end of the day. It would be imprudent to not consider the effects of regulatory capture, crony…

do you have experience in the discipline? It doesn’t sound like you do. I have some experience, and i can think of about a half dozen ways cpap machines and hearing aids could cause serious harm as a result of design flaws or lack of QA that would be de rigeur if not for regulatory pressure.

[deleted]

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#44

Post by dpeck »

trentnix wrote: post #18

This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for performance over distance. I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about to say ma…

I appreciate the modesty, but talking about completing an Ironman and having the phrase “really wasn't all that fit” anywhere near it is comical.

Getting through any one of the stages of an Ironman (or heck even a half of each stage) represents a level of fitness most adults do not have and will never attain.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#45

Post by nradov »

ssl232 wrote: post #19
trentnix wrote: post #18

This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for performance over distance. I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about to say ma…

A friend of mine does keto and after running a marathon reported that they did not experience "the wall". Presumably this is because they were using fat to begin with, not after mile 15 or whatever.

Generally competitive endurance athletes try to shift their metabolism to match the length of their target event. For the longest ultra endurance events you have to be pretty well fat adapted because if you relied mostly on glycogen you wouldn't be able to take in enough carbohydrates during the event to avoid hitting the wall. But for shorter, high intensity events you're going to be burning mostly glycogen and barely touching your fat stores. It's a spectrum.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#46

Post by roywiggins »

guelo wrote: post #17
NationalPark wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the devices you have in mind? It doesn't seem like the intersection between "people with biomedical engineering skills" and "people who need treatment limited by the expense of the equipment" would be that large. I suppose I can imagine a sort of shadow economy of cheap medical treatment on home-built equipment, but surely the providers would be uninsurable and sued into oblivion at the first mistake.

Ones that immediately comes to my mind are ultrasound,and hearing aids. If they were unregulated there would be cheap OTC devices available.

OTC hearing aids may actually be happening:

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-issu...

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#47

Post by xondono »

hprotagonist wrote: post #15
pkaye wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the insane aspects of the regulations?

Most of them are written in blood.

You are assuming that the existence of regulations means that there’s testing required.

You’d be surprised at how much is just about filling the proper paperwork, paying some fees and knowing the right people. The amount of independent testing is negligible.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#48

Post by roywiggins »

Karunamon wrote: post #36
hprotagonist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them are written in blood.

I don't think I can accept that, especially with regard to items like hearing aids. There's a fundamental difference between things like implants and surgical tools and relatively simple devices like CPAP machines and hearing aids; things where the harm of a failure scenario is extremely limited. This is a government at the end of the day. It would be imprudent to not consider the effects of regulatory capture, crony…

there's an ongoing CPAP recall, so there's at least one way they can be dangerous

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/ce...

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#49

Post by xondono »

pkaye wrote: post #9
savant_penguin wrote: post #4

Sometimes I wonder if the way to bypass the insane regulations around medical devices is to just publish them online for anyone to build themselves. Sure I won't have the minutes detail of million dollar medical equipment, but maybe I don't need all that precision, or maybe that's better than having no access at all to the measurements at all

What are the insane aspects of the regulations?

One of the common complaints is the lack of accounting for the harm done by delaying a device/therapy/drug.

If $DISEASE kills 10k people/year, and $DEVICE can save 90% of them but 5% suffer $DEVICE related deaths, delaying the release 10 years trying to get to 0% related deaths doesn’t sound like the best strategy.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#50

Post by nradov »

trentnix wrote: post #18

This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for performance over distance. I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about to say ma…

Will this device actually tell you fat versus glycogen metabolism the way a real exercise lab test would? From the description it doesn't seem so. I think all it really tells you is the amount of oxygen used.
Post reply on HN