Overall, it was a much faster adoption than internet: it wasn't until the smartphone that everybody was online, before that lots of families didn't have the mean or the skills to operate a computer. Not mentioning that Windows was such a mess. My father bought a PC which became so slow that he couldn't even use it anymore.
Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
41–50 of 127 posts
Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#42Let's not forget that Minitel couldn't be as great as it was if not for its complete and utter centralization. Sometimes having twenty slightly different services that are blocked from interoperating for the sake of some abstract notion of privacy isn't that great after all.
Certainly, Minitel was not a secretive Silicon Valley-styled company with dual class shares or other entrenching governance structures, that allow for concentration of voting power in the hands of company insiders, through disproportionate allocation of voting rights among shareholders.
It seems the French do not have the same hatred of telecom that Amercians do.
Regardless of the public opinion toward telecom, it has historically been subject to far more regulation than so-called "tech" companies operating websites. Sadly, some of today's telecom companies try to emulate or piggyback on the privacy violating behaviour of "Big Tech".
Centralisation/decentralisation is an interesting debate, but if the issue is privacy then, IMO, one also needs to consider the question of regulation/deregulation.
Perhaps Minitel was an example of a regulated, government-supported public computer networking service that worked very well.
Silicon Valley and its charlatan ideology is a privacy disaster. It is probably a threat to the survival of democratic societies as we know them.
Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#43I remember being nearly murdered by my parents after they received the phone bill via the (physical, paper-based in those days :-) ) mail. The minitel promptly was locked out of reach of the family's children .... still, good days. They even had games! 36.15 ...
Advertisements for Minitel services would say something like "Dial 3615 HOTSTUFF to meet a passionate lover". A lot of these services were adult chat, games, or extremely low-res porn, and it was easy to rack up a massive phone bill by connecting to them (you'd have to remember to disconnect, too!). Another very common use cases was phone book lookups.
Think of it as a physical terminal for a ncurses-style terminal app using a remote client, with the display updating line by line with a scanning cursor as you received data. There's an example of what that looked like in this short documentary about Minitel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlUmxUB9RhI&t=500s – every single page loaded line by line that way.
Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#44If anything it was so far ahead of the early web that it hindered adoption of the WWW in France. It was incredibly good and rich, many services that could be used by non-technical people and had a built in monetization system for information providers. It took at least until 1996 before the web could compete and by that time France reluctantly started to let go of their beloved tiny terminals. It took until 2012 (!!)…
Not really. I worked for France Télécom's Wanadoo ISP division and the Minitel guys tried to sabotage us at every opportunity, including getting the head of our first division CEO Roger Courtois, but they did not manage to slow the progress, even though at the time they had $1B/year in revenues. The bigger hindrance was relatively low PC penetration compared to the UK, Netherlands or Germany. Fun story: at the time T…
Wasn't that, in part, due to the fact that many people in France already had a Minitel at home?
Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#45Hm. Seems like just another implementation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotex to me. Which I didn't like that much because of the german https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildschirmtext , which reminded me of the stuff you could get on TV, like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext Maybe the french stuff was more useful in practice, the german always seemed scammy, somehow.
> Maybe the french stuff was more useful in practice It was highly pushed by the national telco. The telco lent terminals for free so they were easily available, and there were tons of useful services, especially but not only from national companies: starting from the 80s you had stocks, online shopping, travel reservations, information services, message boards, databases[0], games, dating sites, ... Monetisation / p…
De Gaulle had neglected the country's phone network and it was in a piteous state by the 1960s. A popular comedy sketch, "Le 22 à Asnières" by Fernand Raynaud had the hapless protagonist trying to call number 22 at Asnières and it was such an ordeal he only managed to get connected by a telephone operator in New York...
During the 70s, specially under the technocratic president Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, the French government invested massively to catch up and for several years the Directorate-General of Telecommunications was the single largest government department by budget. They bet massively on digital switching and created huge telco gear vendors in Alcatel. Towards the end of the 70s that massive surge of investment had started to dwindle and the government was trying to figure out what could be the next wave to foster the telecommunications equipment industry, and Minitel was the answer.
It didn't export well. There was a trial in the US with US West, but it didn't pan out. My former boss Jean Lebrun was one of the key people on the electronic phone directory project, and at the time it was the largest real-time database in the world. It was essentially a distributed in-memory database build on 1980s computer technology, and as you can imagine very expensive. Fun story: Oracle tried to get them to evaluate their RDBMS for the project, and even gave them access to the source code, but it was found to be inadequate.
Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#46Notably a core plot device in the French Home Alone style film Deadly Games (aka Dial Code Santa). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_Games_(film)
The trailer is like a Bizarro world Home Alone https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096741/ Now I’m curious if the Home Alone screenwriter watched it.
Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
The trailer is like a Bizarro world Home Alone https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096741/ Now I’m curious if the Home Alone screenwriter watched it.
John Hughes watched it at the festival of Cannes in 1989, after this article (in French): https://www.bfmtv.com/people/3615-code-pere-noel-le-film-fra...
Also I find it amusing that Home Alone in France is titled "Mom, I missed the plane"
Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#48Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
John Hughes watched it at the festival of Cannes in 1989, after this article (in French): https://www.bfmtv.com/people/3615-code-pere-noel-le-film-fra...
This has always been a great business idea. Watch good foreign films and spin them into Americanized versions then pitch them to Hollywood. Also I find it amusing that Home Alone in France is titled "Mom, I missed the plane"