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Health care is turning into a consumer product

economist.com

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Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#41

Post by globalise83 »

mrsuprawsm wrote: post #36
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare in the Netherlands or Switzerland is not free and neither of them have the social disruption and problems you find in the US. There is no point in making broad generalizations, it is a complex issue were you have a multi-decade and multi-billion dollar business tightly coupled with the healthcare of millions of people.

The cost of healthcare in the Netherlands is however extremely affordable, which I think is the most important difference between Europe and the US. In NL, you pay ~€110/month annually, with a max out-of-pocket cost of €385 per year. So, maximum €1600 cost annually. People with a low income, students, etc, get approximately the same amount of money as a cash benefit to cover these costs. I'm not saying this is good,…

There is a similar system in Germany. As someone who is from the UK and now living in Germany, I would say the health system is 5x better in Germany, so the highly regulated but private insurance and healthcare system seems to do a lot for improving things.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#42

Post by mrweasel »

What prevents someone from setting up an affordable healtcare plan, porentially with it’s own chain of hospitals? Other than the startup capital?

As broken as the US healthcare system appears from the outside, the free market SHOULD have pushed prices down, not up.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#43

Post by MomoXenosaga »

amcoastal wrote: post #30
diordiderot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes check the app while your limp unconscious body is shoved into the back of an ambulance. Type in appendectomy near me while you're writhing in pain in the passenger seat and decided, the hospital the next town over is a better deal

You use an absurd scenario, not sure why, but we both know there are tons of times you go to a medical provider where if you could pay less for a slightly longer car ride, you'd do it. But that information isn't even available now. The only fucking industry that is allowed to sell you stuff without telling you how much it will cost.

Who cares how much it costs if your health insurance cover it? The reality is that healthcare is so expensive that it can bankrupt anyone who isn't a millionaire- which is why it needs to be mandatory and comprehensive.

Right now millions of Americans are basically committing fraud: they go to a doctor who has taken an oath to help you. The bill is not getting paid so the government has to step in anyway. May as well make it official.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#44

Post by cntainer »

It's interesting to see that "Health care consumes 18% of GDP in America" compared to ~10% in most developed countries. In my (non-american) opinion part of that difference comes from the fact that healthcare is already a consumer product in the US. Maybe not entirely, but much more than in Europe, where universal healthcare sponsored by the state is the norm.

Another point is that US healthcare is considered the most expensive and worst-performing in terms of outcomes compared to the other developed countries.

So you basically get the worst performing being also the most expensive. Which doesn't really fit the view that less government involvement results in a more efficient system. Well, I guess it is more efficient if the expected outcome is a larger profit for different private companies and middlemen and not the well-being of the rest of the population.

My hope is that this new-found energy in healthcare products doesn't follow the traditional VC-backed approach of building a product, taking over markets through aggressive marketing and shady closed-door dealings and operating at a loss only to then monetize the shit out of everything.

Theranos really embodied some of these fears, and I'm not sure we'll live in a better world if our health will be in the hands of people that have a financial incentive to tell us we're more sick/healthy than we really are.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#45

Post by tgv »

globalise83 wrote: post #41
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of healthcare in the Netherlands is however extremely affordable, which I think is the most important difference between Europe and the US. In NL, you pay ~€110/month annually, with a max out-of-pocket cost of €385 per year. So, maximum €1600 cost annually. People with a low income, students, etc, get approximately the same amount of money as a cash benefit to cover these costs. I'm not saying this is good,…

There is a similar system in Germany. As someone who is from the UK and now living in Germany, I would say the health system is 5x better in Germany, so the highly regulated but private insurance and healthcare system seems to do a lot for improving things.

That's far too little evidence. German health care has always been good.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#47

Post by anovikov »

neuro_image2 wrote: post #4

The greatest healthcare improvements in the US could be brought about by: - Dismantling the insurance/big hospital complex that milks the US population for the enrichment of c-suite executives. - Removing the capacity for lobbying by insurance companies, large hospital groups, device and pharma companies (so they're less able to price gouge consumers). - Price transparency on all links of the chain of healthcare deli…

It is 100% obvious that amounts spent on the military in the U.S. today are insufficient and will have to go much, MUCH higher than they are today. Probably 5x higher - to the Cold War 10-12% levels - because of standoff with China and Russia at same time.

It will still not be enough to win over China, but at least enough to keep the free world in existence. Otherwise democracy will be just simply gone from the world altogether in one generation.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#48

Post by mrsuprawsm »

globalise83 wrote: post #41
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of healthcare in the Netherlands is however extremely affordable, which I think is the most important difference between Europe and the US. In NL, you pay ~€110/month annually, with a max out-of-pocket cost of €385 per year. So, maximum €1600 cost annually. People with a low income, students, etc, get approximately the same amount of money as a cash benefit to cover these costs. I'm not saying this is good,…

There is a similar system in Germany. As someone who is from the UK and now living in Germany, I would say the health system is 5x better in Germany, so the highly regulated but private insurance and healthcare system seems to do a lot for improving things.

As someone also from the UK and now living in NL, I would say that the health system is definitely better in NL, seems like higher quality of care and somewhat smaller waiting times, but definitely not 5x better, maybe 1.3x.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#49

Post by pjc50 »

unixhero wrote: post #24

Healthcare in the Nordics is free. Just saying.

Not exactly. In Norway there's an annual charge for most users plus small co-pays for various services. https://www.internations.org/go/moving-to-norway/healthcare

> Everyone else must pay an annual deductible equivalent to an average of 2,040 NOK (222 USD). After paying this, one receives an exemption card which entitles them to free healthcare for the rest of the year.

> Why is Norway’s Healthcare So Expensive?

(hah!)

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#50

Post by causi »

cntainer wrote: post #44

It's interesting to see that "Health care consumes 18% of GDP in America" compared to ~10% in most developed countries. In my (non-american) opinion part of that difference comes from the fact that healthcare is already a consumer product in the US. Maybe not entirely, but much more than in Europe, where universal healthcare sponsored by the state is the norm. Another point is that US healthcare is considered the mos…

Another point is that US healthcare is considered the most expensive and worst-performing in terms of outcomes compared to the other developed countries.

Not that your thesis isn't correct but be careful there. You're combining the cost of care for the people who get care with an average outcome that includes people who don't get care. The quality of care for Americans who can afford care is excellent.

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