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How to quit like a boss

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Re: How to quit like a boss

#41

Post by Den-vr »

jamesbrady wrote: post #28
paxys wrote: post #7

I don't get this advice. At least in tech it is understood that everyone has their eye open for the next big opportunity. If one comes along, I'm not going to hesitate to take it. It doesn't have to mean that there's a problem in my current role that I need to address with my manager. Sometimes you simply know that it is time to leave and try something new. If my current company is "surprised" by my decision and unpr…

> it is understood that everyone has their eye open for the next big opportunity This hasn't been my approach, nor has it been for many people I've worked with – or perhaps we're tripping over language? Let's say that someone is super motivated by a high salary. They would be helping their manager (and, in most situations, themselves) if they were open about that. Up to and including conversations like "I hear that C…

I especially agree on the approach regarding pay. Contrast that with "I have an offer from Company X that is 20% more, can you match it?" In the former case, you can be seen as expressing a sort of loyalty, in the latter case you live with a little extra workplace hostility even if your current employer agreed to match the offer. In that sense, when it's time to go it's best to go.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#42

Post by marbletimes »

jamesbrady wrote: post #28
paxys wrote: post #7

I don't get this advice. At least in tech it is understood that everyone has their eye open for the next big opportunity. If one comes along, I'm not going to hesitate to take it. It doesn't have to mean that there's a problem in my current role that I need to address with my manager. Sometimes you simply know that it is time to leave and try something new. If my current company is "surprised" by my decision and unpr…

> it is understood that everyone has their eye open for the next big opportunity This hasn't been my approach, nor has it been for many people I've worked with – or perhaps we're tripping over language? Let's say that someone is super motivated by a high salary. They would be helping their manager (and, in most situations, themselves) if they were open about that. Up to and including conversations like "I hear that C…

But if you know that the current company cannot pay like the other company you are interviewing for, or that in this new company the future salary outlook is much better, why bother asking if they can pay you more?

In the work life, one needs to be strategic; it appears to me that most people on here who are commenting somewhat negatively about people giving 2-week notice and nothing else have never been laid off or fired or somewhat "mistreated" by a company.

The way to be an excellent employee is to always deliver work to the best of one's capabilities and give 2-week notice before leaving. In one company I worked for, somebody gave a 2-week notice and was let go immediately. It is not unheard of, and most legacy companies could not care less about a possible PR problem. Those legacy companies live in a galaxy that is far away from the one inhabited by start-ups and similar good PR-dependent companies, they are populated mostly by old dinosaurs that recruit heavily among the not-too-brilliant technical people.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#43

Post by alfalfasprout »

I'm glad that things worked out for the author but this is just generally not great advice for most people.

As nice as your manager is, even if they have your best interests in mind, they ultimately answer to someone else. And that means that even if they don't want to, they can f*k you over with minimal notice anyways. There's a power imbalance there.

Certainly don't be a dick about leaving and burn a ton of bridges... but the standard 2 weeks with professional and minimal responses is the way to go.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#44

Post by sokoloff »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #4
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #3

This is excellent advice for those working in a rational environment. For those working in an ego-driven environment, not so much. Plan your exit strategy as you would from an abusive spouse. Don't assume good faith on anyone else's part.

Indeed, I was thinking where are these rational managers where you can discuss things openly. It seems the world of management is full of petty narcissistic control freaks.

I'm far from perfect as a manager, but I've always worked to help employees working for me evaluate their career options inside and outside our company. I've had open conversations with my bosses about what my goals, skills, limits, etc. were. Many times, I've "saved" employees (from quitting) by helping them see a better path here than they expected was possible. Other times, I've said "holy crap, that sounds amazing and, even though I really value having you work here, I have to advise you that I'd make the jump if I was in your shoes." I've told my boss when (and why) I was interviewing for other roles. I've also told them when I've been totally satisfied and not intending to look for a while.

I could work for a boss that I couldn't trust with that data, but I much prefer working for one that I can and I try to be the one that my directs can trust with it.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#45

Post by jamesbrady »

lelandfe wrote: post #35
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #5

Eh... kind of? Like, I don't disagree that there are reasonable points here, but: > Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss > What’s the worst that can happen? Not a total surprise, but in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search. They might not terminate you outright (or they may), but it's gonna make the rest of your time there a lot l…

> in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search Just to provide a single anecdote of this, my friend worked as a recruiter at a well known company. If higher ups got proof that you had applied to another job, you would be terminated day of and whisked out of the office by security. The stories from him and his coworkers of the subterfuge involved in…

Was this a tech company?

I just tightened up the intro explaining whom this post is meant for, and assumed that high-demand industries would be pretty immune to this kind of insanity

Re: How to quit like a boss

#46

Post by ram_rar »

hodgesrm wrote: post #33
ram_rar wrote: post #10

> Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss I get the spirit of this. But someone whos in tech on a visa, this is absolutely the worse advice. The fear or retaliation is real, especially in bigger firms where your manager has a lot of say. The moment higher ups have the slightest inkling that you're looking for other jobs, you'll soon get pushed out.

I know of a case where the manager actually called the INS after the employee left. Protect yourself and your family first. (I'm a manager myself.)

INS?

Re: How to quit like a boss

#47

Post by BeetleB »

jamesbrady wrote: post #18
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #5

Eh... kind of? Like, I don't disagree that there are reasonable points here, but: > Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss > What’s the worst that can happen? Not a total surprise, but in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search. They might not terminate you outright (or they may), but it's gonna make the rest of your time there a lot l…

Hmm, I hear you on the first point… Perhaps I'm blinkered to roles in tech (to which this post was aimed, but not explicitly enough)? In my experience at such companies, people certainly aren't walked if they express dissatisfaction in their role – but you're right that this doesn't necessarily transfer onto roles which are less competitive. I will think about how to tighten that piece up: thanks for the feedback. On…

> On the second point, I can only congratulate you if you manage to keep everything so organised and compartmentalised! It's something I've aspired to but always fallen short of.

If your boss/company values it, you'll do it. If they don't, I don't feel obligated to wrap this up before I leave. Typically, they tend to reward folks who prefer not to write good documentation and rather code features. It shouldn't be up to these folks to fix the problem their manager/company culture has by suddenly writing docs when they have to leave.

I think training someone on work you've done in the last few weeks makes sense. But beyond that - no. If my manager wants me to work solo on a project for months and doesn't want me to train someone until I announce I'm leaving, then it's the manager's headache - not mine.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#48

Post by albertTJames »

Great post, it is the kind of things you wish you read 10 years ago. Most negative comments I read here are basically reformulating Talion law. That's not how you make things better around you. You should behave as an employee like the employee you wish was working for you.

Two weeks is not enough to hand off your work and allow a company/team to prepare.

If your managers are asshole, then maybe you cannot change your environment by voicing concerns, and risk being fired. But if you made up your mind and know you're leaving, by giving 2 months notice you can make sure not to leave your team in a bad state

If arguments based on core-values do not sway you, doing the right thing is also the way to get good recommendations and opportunities in the future.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#49

Post by boznz »

billyhoffman wrote: post #22

Reasonable (though fairly hackneyed) advice. Until I get to this: > I let my boss know I was leaving in February, so my commitment to see things through to the end of the year was effectively a 10-month notice period. This, ironically, was the first sentence in a section entitled "Avoid giving too much notice" If you can't handoff your work in less than 2 weeks, either you as an employee have failed to properly docum…

I am the sole programmer and support for a very large companies production system. The company has flagged the problem and has tried to re-write the system for several years but have never managed to retain a coherent programming team long enough to see the project through nor found a suitable replacement in the market.

Luckily for them I am a contractor not an employee but there are definitely grey areas.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#50

Post by jamesbrady »

marbletimes wrote: post #42
jamesbrady wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is understood that everyone has their eye open for the next big opportunity This hasn't been my approach, nor has it been for many people I've worked with – or perhaps we're tripping over language? Let's say that someone is super motivated by a high salary. They would be helping their manager (and, in most situations, themselves) if they were open about that. Up to and including conversations like "I hear that C…

But if you know that the current company cannot pay like the other company you are interviewing for, or that in this new company the future salary outlook is much better, why bother asking if they can pay you more? In the work life, one needs to be strategic; it appears to me that most people on here who are commenting somewhat negatively about people giving 2-week notice and nothing else have never been laid off or…

> But if you know that the current company cannot pay like the other company you are interviewing for, or that in this new company the future salary outlook is much better, why bother asking if they can pay you more?

That's situation-dependent: there's often stuff a company can do if you're highly cash-motivated (promotions, other title changes, bonuses, …) to retain you.

On the other hand, often there's not! Especially in older / larger orgs or ones with unconventionally rigid payscales. Even in that situation, I'd generally stand by the recommendation: there's a chance they will find a way to accommodate your needs, and if not you have cemented a strong relationship with your manager and above that will benefit you way into the future.

A few other commenters have mentioned the benefits they have realised by leaving gracefully. IMO this expected upside outweighs the short-term risk, at least in the sorts of roles the post is (now) aimed at.

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