Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

psyche.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 261 posts

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#41

Post by nicoburns »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #30
akvadrako wrote: post #3

It takes a while to get to the point, but this is what the page is about: As we explained in a recent review paper, researchers have repeatedly found evidence that Autistic individuals are, on average, more consistent, less biased, and more rational than non-autistic individuals in a variety of contexts. Specifically, many Autistic people seem to be less susceptible to cognitive biases, and therefore better able to m…

On the flip side, many autistic people have trouble understanding neurotypical people because they miss nuance in their communication that other neurotypical adults would find to be obvious. Autism isn't some reasoning superpower, it's just a difference in processing stimuli.

This is also true the other way around however: neurotypical people miss nuance in autistics communication that other autistic adults would find to be obvious.

I would agree with your characterisation as a difference in processing stimuli.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#43

Post by georgestephanis »

overboard2 wrote: post #29
georgestephanis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes hi, "aspergers" is an unfortunate nomenclature and many autistic folks (myself included) strongly resent it. It was named after a Nazi doctor (Hans Asperger) and used to classify autistic folks into "useful" and "non-useful" people -- as Nazis and Eugenicists are known to do. When you think of it, if you could refer to folks on the spectrum as such, without referencing the outdated nomenclature (the DSM-5 replace…

Yes hi, why is the category of those with Asperger's syndrome not useful for the further understanding and communication of information.

What information do you feel can be communicated and understood with that moniker that is not served by Autism Spectrum? And why do you feel those distinctions (if any) merit a wholly distinct diagnosis?

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#44

Post by nicoburns »

rajin444 wrote: post #24
Puts wrote: post #17

The ironic part is that the non-autistic people wont trust autistic peoples valuable non-biased opinions because of their bias against non-conforming people.

I had an autistic coworker who could not understand using pronouns outside of the already established ones (he/she). She was otherwise very “progressive” but didn’t consider herself such. It had to do with he/she mapping to (99% of the time) defined biological features. It was a very awkward lunch.

In fairness, using different pronouns for different genders doesn't make a lot of sense in the first place.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#45

Post by ben_w »

akvadrako wrote: post #3

It takes a while to get to the point, but this is what the page is about: As we explained in a recent review paper, researchers have repeatedly found evidence that Autistic individuals are, on average, more consistent, less biased, and more rational than non-autistic individuals in a variety of contexts. Specifically, many Autistic people seem to be less susceptible to cognitive biases, and therefore better able to m…

> Though those biases probably came about for good reasons, it could be they've become obsolete and are no longer worth it.

I suspect (but don’t know how to test the hypothesis) that cognitive biases are why human learning can produce good results with dramatically less data than machine learning. More rational, yes, when you get there; but harder to learn at all.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#46

Post by zozbot234 »

rajin444 wrote: post #24
Puts wrote: post #17

The ironic part is that the non-autistic people wont trust autistic peoples valuable non-biased opinions because of their bias against non-conforming people.

I had an autistic coworker who could not understand using pronouns outside of the already established ones (he/she). She was otherwise very “progressive” but didn’t consider herself such. It had to do with he/she mapping to (99% of the time) defined biological features. It was a very awkward lunch.

Yes, this is exactly how most people in the U.S. and the West more generally would relate to the whole "pronouns/grammatical gender" thing. SV is a bubble.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#47

Post by seba_dos1 »

rajin444 wrote: post #24
Puts wrote: post #17

The ironic part is that the non-autistic people wont trust autistic peoples valuable non-biased opinions because of their bias against non-conforming people.

I had an autistic coworker who could not understand using pronouns outside of the already established ones (he/she). She was otherwise very “progressive” but didn’t consider herself such. It had to do with he/she mapping to (99% of the time) defined biological features. It was a very awkward lunch.

Judging from how I was changing my opinion on similar matters when I was growing up, I guess she simply lacks the insight into why someone would feel the need to reject the established pronouns - she probably doesn't feel that need herself, so she doesn't have any frame of reference to be able to consider that until someone explains it to her, which makes her naturally gravitate towards seemingly unambiguous and clear grammatical rules that "make sense".

I'd guess that it's pretty common for autistic people to fight concepts like singular "they" just out of the sense of maintaining linguistic order, uncorrelated with whether they actually see the need for gender-neutral and non-binary pronouns or not (which can be a source of frustrating misunderstandings that assume bad intent when there's none).

For me, it only "clicked" once I understood that gender and sexuality are completely arbitrary and subjective social constructs that try to describe a whole spectrum of multidimensional behaviors and (potentially repressed) feelings, so there's little point in trying to objectively categorize them - it's all about the subjective impression of the person themself, which makes it obvious that the language should be able to actually express their identities and that it doesn't help anyone to try to force some categorization on them.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#48

Post by dhosek »

One thing worth noting about the spectrum in autistic spectrum disorder is that it does not mean what many people assume it does, that it's referring to a range of severity with mild on one end and severe on the other.

Rather it's more a spectrum as in a spectrum of colors: there are a number of traits to autism, not all of which might be present in a person diagnosed with ASD so single-criteria tests like identify the emotions in these photographs, for example, don't really work as good diagnostic tools.

This article found with a quick Google search seems to sum up some of this reasonably well: https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisedu.org/what-is-meant-by-...

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#49

Post by BizarroLand »

nicoburns wrote: post #39
rackjack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I suspect the fact that Autism reduces a person's ability to relate emotionally and socially to themselves and others allows them to dedicate more brain power to thinking rationally. In a mild enough case, with a supportive tribe, they could be a useful advisor. No autistic members = tribe has trouble making good collective decisions. Too many autistic members = tribe can't collaborate. That's just my armchair…

Autistic people can have trouble accessing emotions, but a lot of the reason for that stereotype is just that they communicate their emotions and emotional reactions differently and/or that their emotional reactions to certain situations are different to those of neurotypical people: not that they're not actually feeling emotions at all.

It might also be that Autistic traits would be a good solo or small tribe survival adaptation.

Highly logical, no breaking down in a fit of misery, less susceptible to loneliness, very useful for times when you're stuck in a survival situation.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#50

Post by kragen »

nathias wrote: post #9
akvadrako wrote: post #3

It takes a while to get to the point, but this is what the page is about: As we explained in a recent review paper, researchers have repeatedly found evidence that Autistic individuals are, on average, more consistent, less biased, and more rational than non-autistic individuals in a variety of contexts. Specifically, many Autistic people seem to be less susceptible to cognitive biases, and therefore better able to m…

It doesn't mean that at all, its but that real world is not made for rationallity, and even if we have created special contexts where it is, it doesn't mean it can be generalized out of them.

I would argue exactly the contrary: the real world, the seasons and stars and seeds, is pitilessly rational. It cannot be tricked, pleaded with, or emotionally manipulated. It is harsh, but equally so to everyone, and according to an inexorable logic that cannot be altered but can be exploited. It is the special contexts the humans have created, like churches, courts, and tribes, where the laws of rationality can be imperfectly and temporarily suspended, replaced by a "virtual reality" that is merely a social consensus.
Post reply on HN