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54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

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Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#41

Post by blacksmith_tb »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #24
mrfusion wrote: post #22

Most of my professional life involved continually being surprised how little most people actually read.

As in reading for pleasure?

Presumably - I have often wondered how much more we all read and write now compared to people 50yr ago (even if a lot of it is in Slack / email / SMS etc.) It does appear that reading books for pleasure is gradually trending down in the US[1] unfortunately, but in terms of raw words read or written, I would think that we're doing a lot more online than we used to do off...

1: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2016/09/01/book-reading...

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#42

Post by mumblemumble »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #35

In California, Many schools in Califonia use an unproven/inferior method/curriculum for teaching literacy, based on the work of F&P.[1] [0] https://caaspp-elpac.cde.ca.gov/caaspp/DashViewReport?ps=tru... [1] https://www.apmreports.org/story/2021/11/19/fountas-pinnell-...

It's hard to know what to make of that figure without knowing how the standard is set, though.

I have no idea how California does it, but it's not uncommon to define the grade levels as the median score kids in that grade get on the test. And 50% of kids scoring below the median would only be a worrisome result in the Lake Wobegon school system.

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#43

Post by mrfusion »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #24
mrfusion wrote: post #22

Most of my professional life involved continually being surprised how little most people actually read.

As in reading for pleasure?

Mostly writing emails and being shocked no one read them.

I’m now a two bullet point max kind of emailer.

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#44

Post by Spooky23 »

woodruffw wrote: post #20
pseudo0 wrote: post #15

Looking at the original PIAAC data source ( https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/skillsmap/ ), it looks like the level one or below counties are pretty strongly correlated with proximity to the southern border... How many of those people were educated in the US system, or are eligible to vote? Also, in the future maybe submit the primary data source, rather than a Wikipedia link that cites a Forbes article?

This is the key observation: these surveys aim to determine the general English literacy of the American workforce. You don't have to be a US citizen or a voter, or even an English speaker to work in this country. A more accurate metric would be "prose literacy in the individual's at-home spoken language," which would probably yield a significantly less drastic picture. Perhaps not the best one, but nowhere near as e…

English is the language of commerce and government. My fluency in Tagalog is great, but has minimal impact outside of a small community. Even if you speak a different language at home, school is primary taught in English with exceptions for Spanish or other languages in some regions.

My dad taught English at a community college a decade ago, mostly to soldiers returning from the war. They were mostly smart, motivated people determined to succeed and facing many obstacles. It was shocking to him that they were writing 5 page essays for the first time as 20-something college students.

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#45

Post by sokoloff »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #31
sokoloff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primary elections for major offices usually have more than two candidates, and tend to have more subtle rather than massive differences.

Only of value in states with open primaries.

Why is that? I’m in a state with semi-closed primaries and, as an independent, can draw whatever party primary ballot I want.

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#46

Post by throwntoday »

ozzythecat wrote: post #38
dotnet00 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I honestly thought the people here would be better than this

The irony is that HN posters are vehemently against social media, particularly FB. The reasons I’ve read are all about the general negativity, pessimism, false information, etc. While HN submissions are generally held to a higher standard, the general comments/discussions are equally toxic. Apparently FB is such a cancer and everyone else is such a problem - but we’re actually part of the problem.

I genuinely don't get what civil discourse is supposed to achieve. Discourse should be no holds barred. If your points can't stand unfiltered scrutiny maybe they're not as solid as you think.

I consider HN somewhere between 4chan and reddit. People here are actually smart (unlike reddit, which appears to attract angsty teenagers more than anything) and willing to engage in discussions outside of the status quo. It's not the chaotic jungle of 4chan, but if you're talking out of your ass people here are too clever to fall for it and you will be called out. On reddit if something sounds right to enough people who know nothing at all about said topic, it will get upvoted to the top where more people will absorb blatantly false information or self-fellating, pandering opinion.

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#47

Post by yardie »

csdvrx wrote: post #29
encryptluks2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Leaving asides the offense/racist grandparent comments, the worship of money is what has made America prosperous, and what still allows us to get the best and the brightest. Ask "them enlightened" Europeans (or Australians or...) how much they make, and rejoice we get to live a prosperous life here in America! And no, before someone says "but what about universal healthcare?", health insurance doesn't count, because…

The European countries who never fulfill their annual US visa allotments; to the chagrin of Chinese and Indian visa seekers who are facing almost a decade long wait.

The disparities in salaries are pretty much isolated to tech. Most other occupations are pretty much similar all things considered.

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#48

Post by racl101 »

mrfusion wrote: post #22

Most of my professional life involved continually being surprised how little most people actually read.

I remember one time being asked at work if I watched some Netflix show du jour ( I believe it was Tiger King at the time) and I replied with: "I don't watch a lot of TV in general. Yes, I have Netflix but don't watch it very often."

Then I went to say that in my spare time I like to listen to music and reading. You'd think I'd have said that I'm into being a serial killer. Just weird puzzled and uncomfortable looks.

It then struck me that many people, if not most, cannot comprehend spending their leisure time in any way other than passively watching movies, TV or videos on their smartphone or playing video games.

And believe me, I'm not saying it just to be pretentious, but a lot of the time, reading is way more exciting than whatever's happening on the small screen. There's nothing wrong with TVs and movies but they're certainly not the only way to spend your leisure time.

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#49

Post by throwaway0a5e »

okamiueru wrote: post #10
savant_penguin wrote: post #7

It's interesting that one of the richest countries on earth has such low education standards

An uneducated population is easier to persuade to vote against its own interests.

What's the difference between voting against one's own interests and voting with one's conscience instead of one's wallet?

Re: 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level

#50

Post by thundergolfer »

newsbinator wrote: post #11
savant_penguin wrote: post #7

It's interesting that one of the richest countries on earth has such low education standards

The richest countries, like the richest companies, are rich enough to coast for decades on past accomplishments, usually until external competition causes a problem.

And import the smartest people from other companies. The USA leads the world in imported talent.
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